A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.

Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Fred in Skirts » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:55 pm

Stu wrote:Of course we all support equality of opportunity. Women already have that plus they get extra help on top, but there is no way society should be striving for equality of outcome.

Have you seen the public schools in the USA.. They have dumbed down the lessons and then grade so that everyone gets a passing grade. If that is not striving for equality of outcome I don't know what is....

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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Stu » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:19 pm

This kind of thing seems to be happening everywhere, Fred.

Not good. :cry:
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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Sinned » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:26 pm

When I was 16 we took Ordinary Levels or 'O' Levels and then at 18 Advanced Levels or 'A' Levels. The A Levels have been retained but the O Levels were replaced with GCE's and they were replaced with GCSE's, at each stage dumbing down the difficulty of the exdamination. The authorities still have a long running battle to try and close down the few Grammar Schools we have left. Selection for them was by examination - at the time called the 11+. I vaguely remember taking it at Primary School, didn't understand what the exam meant but passed it easily anyway and went to the Grammar. Good school and on the whole I enjoyed it. There are mutinous moves to try and open some new Grammar Schools by affiliating them to an existing school or Academy. Making things to easy isn;t the way. A muscle doesn't become strong by lifting light weights.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby TheRod » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:27 am

Stu,
I don't agree with you analysis of western society, both past and present, and I can see we are far apart on this. All the women I know well enough say they have had to endure many oafish men who try to control them and oppress their ambitions, not to mention physically assault them.
I came across just one such example of men trying to control women recently, the story of swimmer suffragettes: http://radio.abc.net.au/programitem/pgKVDlQqLV?play=true

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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Stu » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:24 pm

Rod

Yes, there are oafish men around - and there are manipulative and lying women. There are also oafish women around - and there are manipulative and lying men. These characteristics can apply to both sexes. There are also oppressive women around - and violent women. It may not be commonly known, but women are no less likely to instigate violence than men, although the vast majority of female violence goes unreported. There is a common myth that violence is a male problem, but it really isn't. The difference between male and female violence is that males tend to be stronger and more adept with their fists and other weapons, and less likely to burst into tears, so the injuries sustained from male violence tend to be more severe. This also applies to domestic violence, where research shows women are almost as likely to initiate violence and men generally don't make reports: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/19133-women-more-likely-to-commit-domestic-violence-studies-show; https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence . Lastly, while there are examples of men trying to control women - and plenty of examples of women using other means to control men (or ask ANY marriage guidance counsellor about the "controlling wife syndrome"). Also, the idea of the Suffragettes being heroines who won women the vote is largely a myth. Ex radical feminist Professor Janice Fiamengo sums up the origins of the myth and offers a more truthful account: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_Ed2BIOHbQ. In England, the early Suffragettes were demanding votes for "women", by which they meant only educated, middle-class women, and they were strongly opposed to extending the franchise to working class men and women who did not have the vote.

Lastly, talking about control,I notice you are an Australian and you have a well-known feminist called Clementine Ford and antifeminist called Daisy Cousins in your country. For those unfamiliar with these, while Clementine constantly whines about "male privilege" and "the patriarchy" and "rape culture", Daisy is a distinguished young journalist who essentially calls out modern feminism as a hate cult that seeks to control women as well as to demonise men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPtqbRROFf0

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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby TheRod » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:50 pm

Stu,
If you want evidence from Australia about how the victims of serious violence between partners are overwhelming female look at https://www.ourwatch.org.au/understanding-violence/facts-and-figures and http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/challenging-the-mra-claim-of-a-domestic-violence-conspiracy/8632190
The topic is in the news a lot here recently due to local events, such as this commentary from Clematine Ford who you mentioned: https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/life-and-relationships/a-disastrous-time-for-abuse-of-women-in-this-country-20180707-p4zq48.html You probably consider this whining.
BTW, women have had suffrage here from the early 1900s, with some states from the 1890s.

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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Stu » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:50 pm

Rod,

I work in social research and I see this kind of statistical sophistry all the time. You HAVE to look at it with a critical eye. OK, let's see what you've got. You referred me to a pressure group which (a) has an agenda, and (b) is seeking funding. Hardly an impartial source then. They are called "Our Watch" and their slogan is "End Violence Against Women and Children". Why only women and children? I don't know about Australia, but there is a massive amount of research which I can show you that says men and teenage boys suffer far more violence than women and girls overall. But somehow they don't count. For some reason, in this supposed age of equality, violence against women is so much worse than violence against men. Not a good start, but let's look at their claimed data. I can't cover all of it otherwise this comment will be far too long, but I'll address some:

"On average, one woman a week is murdered by her current or former partner, according to the most recent analysis of homicide statistics in Australia." First, how many men are murdered by their partners? Not as many I expect, but that's not mentioned. Second, there is a great deal of evidence to suggest that lesbian partners violence is a massive problem: https://mainweb-v.musc.edu/vawprevention/lesbianrx/factsheet.shtml Remember that a current or former partner can be a woman. Third, the population of Australia is about 25 million. Say 5 million are children and half of the remainder are women, then that's 10 million women. It states that a woman a week is murdered by her partner, which amounts to 50 about 50 a year, so 50/10,000,000 = approx. 0.002% of women are murdered by a "partner or former partner" (of either sex) each year. That's probably less than die from being struck by lightning, so it's hardly a massive problem, and certainly in no way indicative of a culture of male violence. In the UK, about a third of domestic murders are committed against men, mostly by women.

"One in three Australian women has experienced physical violence, since the age of 15." Meaningless. It does not (a) define physical violence, so it could include very trivial incidents; (b) state the proportion of males that have suffered violence (almost certainly far higher); (c) indicate whether the assailant was male or female. It proves nothing and, again, it ignores male victims - but that comes later, I know.

"Women are at least three times more likely than men to experience violence from an intimate partner." They don't know that - how can they? This is exactly what I mentioned to you last time when I linked research which showed that there is huge under-reporting by males of intimate violence. This study from Harvard University suggests that 70% of domestic violence is committed by women against men: http://www.newscastmedia.com/domestic-violence.htm Now I did see your link from abc.co.au (a politically aligned sire which is matched only by the US agency CNN in my experience). It says: "But apart from these anecdotal reports, there's only mixed evidence to back up this claim, with some studies showing men are more likely to report violence, and others showing they're less likely." Mixed evidence? So we can't say that "Women are at least three times more likely than men to experience violence from an intimate partner" if the evidence is mixed, can we? On close inspection, the claimant, one "Dr M Flood", uses a single citation to back up his claim by means of a PowerPoint presentation attributed to ..."Dr M Flood".

"Women are five times more likely than men to require medical attention or hospitalisation as a result of intimate partner violence, and five times more likely to report fearing for their lives." Again, this is what I said last time. Women are as likely to instigate violence, but males are physically much stronger and more likely to use their fists, which means more significant injuries.

The site gives a nodding acknowledgment of violence against men, and then it goes on to claim some statistics which appear to relate specifically to Australia. Although I would be interested to look at these in some detail because I know better than to take such claims at face value, I am also conscious that this relates to a culture that I know little about, i.e. the Australian culture. What I do know is that, when similar claims have been made in the UK and the US, they have been thoroughly debunked following a close analysis.

As for the spat between Senator David Lyonjhelm and Sarah Hanson-Young: I reckons she should reflect upon her own behaviour. Her statement that gave rise to his verbal attack on her was her assertion that "men cannot control themselves" and "men behave like morons and pigs" and "women wouldn't need pepper spray if men weren't rapists". Note she said "men"; that means men as a class. That means YOU, Rod, cannot, according to her, control yourself and you behave like a moron and a pig and also you are a rapist. She could have qualified it, but she chose not to. She could have clarified it later and made it clear that most men don't behave in this way, but she didn't. A video from one of your compatriots who calls himself "Bearing" highlights her hypocrisy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6VlDwbxNjc. We have recently seen a spate of women teachers sexually abusing young students in both the UK and the US. Now just imagine if a man had said: "women cannot control themselves" and "women behave like morons and pigs" and "boys wouldn't need pepper spray if women weren't paedophiles". If you have the misfortune to be mugged in London, statistics show that there is a 78% chance the mugger will be black. Again, imagine how people would react if you made a blanket statement about black people being unable to control themselves etc etc. It would of course be totally unacceptable but, somehow, attacking men as a single demographic class is regarded as absolutely fine. This is because feminists are identitarians and so believe all men are responsible for every evil act anyone with a penis does. Well, you will forgive me if I disagree.

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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby TheRod » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:30 am

Stu,
I think this thread is getting widely off topic.

When I look at the data (yours and other sources) I see quite different numbers. For instance, femicides by partners in Australia is a serious sociological problem, and it is a least an order of magnitude greater than female deaths by lightning (0-4).

This AU government site http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4906.0 says
More than one in three Australians experienced violence by a male perpetrator since the age of 15 (36% or 6.7 million), compared to one in ten by a female perpetrator (11% or 2 million). Approximately one in four women (23% or 2.2 million) experienced violence by an intimate partner, compared to one in thirteen men (7.8% or 703,700).


This UK government site https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/domesticabuseinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017 says 30% of domestic homicides were male and that of these and 33% were committed by females (unlike your 33%, and greater than 50% figures respectively).

In the US, this DoJ report https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fvs02.pdf says male perpetrators constituted 96% of federal prosecution on domestic violence. It contains plenty of other damning statistics about male behaviour (no need to say "some" because of course this is understood by any intelligent person).

Stu, do you support the MRA movement? What about Roe v Wade, the NRA, Ann Rand, and libertarianism?

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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby crfriend » Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:22 am

TheRod wrote:When I look at the data (yours and other sources) I see quite different numbers. For instance, femicides by partners in Australia is a serious sociological problem, and it is a least an order of magnitude greater than female deaths by lightning (0-4).

That's a very serious problem when trying to confront issues such as these because (1) almost everybody involved has an agenda they're trying to push and (2) the numbers are either missing -- as in un- or under- reported -- or heavily doctored.

Reporting is a problem as many incidents go unreported by the victim; this is especially a problem with female-on-male violence -- and sometimes the violence is by proxy where the woman uses the police as her weapon. Going by law-enforcement data is misleading because that is heavily slanted in its approach (the DoJ report points this up rather absurdly). The real point here is that domestic abuse is very definitely a two-way street and the reporting is very heavily lopsided against men. Am I saying that male-on-female violence is not a problem? No. What I'm saying is that violence itself is a problem no matter who perpetrates it and what its form is.
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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Stu » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:38 pm

TheRod

You are right that we are getting quite a bit away from the topic, so I'll make this my last post but i will answer your last question.

"do you support the MRA movement?" Broadly, I support most of their aims. And I recommend the love "The Red Pill", made by a feminist who initially set out to discredit the men's rights movement but, in making the film, she completely changed her view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WMuzhQXJoY

"What about Roe v Wade," I am British, so it doesn't apply to me, but I am opposed to abortion other than in extreme cases.

"the NRA," Again, doesn't apply to me. I would support the US's right to the 2nd Amendment, but I don't know enough about the NRA.

"Ann Rand" I am not sure whether you mean Anne Rand, the US Democrat politician, who I did not particularly admire when she was active, or the philosopher Ayn Rand. If you mean the latter, I have found I can agree with some of her views, such as her rejection of Kant (who was brilliant, but wrong, IMO) and her dislike of many of the postmodern ideas such as identitarianism, collectivism and the role of the state. But my professional field is in linguistics and so I am more familiar with semiotics or pragmatic philosophers like C S Peirce, John L Austin and Paul Grice.

"and libertarianism?" I support some aspects of libertarianism, but not in its most extreme form, perhaps as a minarchist who favours the concept of the "Night Watchman State" as opposed to the social welfare model of government. But I do believe in the nation state, national borders and the imposition of law.

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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Stu » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:40 pm

crfriend - I totally agree.
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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Stu » Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:12 pm

And yet another school-skirt story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tures.html

We need to make sure that skirts as well as shorts are a genuine option for boys. Can I suggest everyone sends in a comment saying how great the boys look, how sensible it is that boys should wear skirts in warm weather and how ridiculous it is that there is a taboo against males from wearing garments etc etc. You know the drill.
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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby Caultron » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:21 pm

Stu wrote:And yet another school-skirt story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tures.html

We need to make sure that skirts as well as shorts are a genuine option for boys. Can I suggest everyone sends in a comment saying how great the boys look, how sensible it is that boys should wear skirts in warm weather and how ridiculous it is that there is a taboo against males from wearing garments etc etc. You know the drill.

Well of couose. How can anyone learn anything when dressed in shorts?
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: A New One - School Skirt Bans!

Postby r.m.anderson » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:55 am

Caultron wrote:
Stu wrote:And yet another school-skirt story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tures.html

We need to make sure that skirts as well as shorts are a genuine option for boys. Can I suggest everyone sends in a comment saying how great the boys look, how sensible it is that boys should wear skirts in warm weather and how ridiculous it is that there is a taboo against males from wearing garments etc etc. You know the drill.

Well of couose. How can anyone learn anything when dressed in shorts?


How distressing the term - dressed in shorts - sort of an oxymoron.
Yes I know what you are referring to but for me it is an awkward expression of depression.
Shorts are neither dressy or resembling unbifurcated dresses exception the SKORT but that is a whole nother creature !

Anything with a seam panel or enclosure between the legs is NOT COOL - no ventilation properties.
The moderation people will not let me go further about the supporting clause in my contract with nature - so be it - I am cool with that.
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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