FreestyleCafe --- Ideas, anyone?

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Bob
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FreestyleCafe --- Ideas, anyone?

Post by Bob »

OK, so the nuts and bolts of FreestyleCafe. We need:

1. A statement of purpose
2. A set of governing rules
3. A logo (can come later)
4. Moderators (can come later)

I will start off with suggestions for statement of purpose and governing rules, and then we'll see what others think. Please comment if you think you might be interested in participating in FreestyleCafe when it goes live next week.

Statement of Purpose (on main screen)

Freestyle Cafe is an on-line community dedicated to exploring, promoting and advocating total fashion freedom for men. Simply put, men should be "allowed" to wear anything decent, even outfits considered feminine by many. At the same time, we are dedicated to exploring our inner gender landscape, which may range from masculine to androgynous, and sometimes beyond. We recognize a diversity of styles our members feel comfortable wearing, and do not exclude any potential choices. Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men. See here for more details.

Statement of Purpose and Governing Rules (expanded, in a thread)

Freestyle Cafe is an on-line community dedicated to exploring, promoting and advocating total fashion freedom for men. Simply put, men should be "allowed" to wear anything decent, even outfits considered feminine by many. At the same time, we are dedicated to exploring our inner gender landscape, which may range from masculine to androgynous, and sometimes beyond. We recognize a diversity of styles our members feel comfortable wearing, and do not exclude any potential choices.

Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom. In particular, we recognize that gender is a complex subject and some of us may feel more "masculine" or "feminine" at times --- or maybe androgynous. However, this is NOT a transvestite or crossdresser forum. We do not try to "pass," and we ask that men on our forum use masculine names and pronouns.

This forum is about men, but women are absolutely welcome at FreestyleCafe --- especially those who like to see men in petticoats and makeup! We also welcome women who may be uncomfortable with this stuff, but are seeking to come to terms with the idea --- maybe because of a loved one one who simply insists on going out to the movies in a beautiful silk dress.

Subjects outside the realm of fashion freedom are also welcomed --- those little victories or struggles in life we wish to share. This is a Cafe, and Cafes are for discussion. So let the coffee flow, let the music play, bring in your comfy chair, and enjoy!

---

There are only a few rules here at FreestyleCafe

1. ABOVE ALL: Respect for others at all times. No profanity/swearing. No personal insults.
2. No politics, unless related to fashion freedom. No religion, unless related to fashion freedom. These topics were banned because they lead to endless flame wars.
3. FreestyleCafe is a family-friendly fashion forum. No adult material. No discussion of clothing not meant to be seen in public, unless it affects clothing that IS meant to be seen. Underwear is NOT public fashion.
4. Feel free to post pictures suitable for public display. Indecent or immodest pictures will be removed, regardless of intent.
5. No female screen names (unless you are a woman). We are committed to gender honesty.
6. No discussion of artifical body parts or pieces of clothing meant for body parts that men do not have. There are plenty of fine TV/CD forums, if that is what you are looking for.

-------------------------
Again, please comment.
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Pythos
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Post by Pythos »

good start, however lets remove the site being for men idea. Lets make it open to all freestylers, including women. Yes I know it may sound odd, but think about the tom boys we have all known. There are women out there that can fall under the freestyle category.

Total fashion freedom for me means, any one can wear anything, within reason. No more gender related rules on clothing, except perhaps bras on men, and some styles of panties.

Only limitation on this site being, no full on cross dressing with the intent to deceive. (So no heavy feminine styled make up, wigs, breast forms, and tucking.) I do like the idea of no female screen names for male posters, and likewise for female posters. This for me just causing confusion when it comes to stated opinions. I for one would like input from women on my personal style.

The styles worn are obviously being worn in a way that does not hide the sex of the wearer, or at most obfuscates it ( eg androgyny).

I think that if people have complaints, they should clearly state which post irritated them, no general posts complaining about "them" or "they".

Also, before you harshly critique somebody's style, I suggest that the critic post a picture of their style, so the person getting critiqued gets an idea of what the other person's style is.

I don't particularly like one members sneakers with tights and white socks and shoes look, so I will take his critique of foot wear with a grain of salt. If it works for him that's good, but it doesn't for me. That is just an example, no offense meant. I received plenty of critique from members concerning my style, but have little to no idea of the appearance of those critiquing me.

Those are all the ideas I currently have.

Hope it helped.
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crfriend
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Re: FreestyleCafe --- Ideas, anyone?

Post by crfriend »

I'd like to propose a subtle change of wording in a couple of places. Note that these are off-the-cuff observations, and revisions/improvements are welcomed.
[...]Simply put, men should be "allowed" to wear anything decent, even outfits considered feminine by many.
This might read better as, "...men should be able to wear anything ... considered "feminine" by many, should be able to do so as men, and should be accepted by the public whilst doing so." That may be a bit "wordy", so further word-smithing may be required, but I believe it captures, a bit more accurately, what we're after.
Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom.
If the intent is the creation of a fashion-driven forum, I'd be tempted to make the discussion of the "gender continuum" a tangential one; it's needed, to be sure, but does it need to figure so prominently in the "Mission Statement"?

I politely disagree with the idea of striking the notion that the forum is primarily for men, and the reason I do so is that women ("genetic girls") have had full "fashion freedom" (at least in non-work/non-formalised environments) for many years now; it is primarily men who are strait-jacketed when it comes to self-expression via non-(western)-traditional styles. Too, specifying that the theme is "fashion freedom for men" reinforces that the forum is not about transvestism (in the general DSM sense, and more pointedly in the SkirtCafe sense), and that dovetails nicely with my impression of the mission. If there's a sincere worry that women, and their very important observations, feedback, and advice, might feel unwelcome then the specific separate welcome statement should be retained.

Just a few ideas. Comments?
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ChristopherJ
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Post by ChristopherJ »

My ideas:
Statement of Purpose (on main screen)

Freestyle Cafe is an on-line community dedicated to exploring, promoting and advocating total fashion freedom for men. Simply put, men should be "allowed" to wear anything decent, even outfits considered feminine by many. At the same time, we are dedicated to exploring our inner gender landscape, which may range from masculine to androgynous, and sometimes beyond. We recognize a diversity of styles our members feel comfortable wearing, and do not exclude any potential choices. Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men. See here for more details.
1) I don't think the word 'total' (in: advocating total fashion freedom for men) is helpful there - as it seems to be advocating an extremist standpoint. While some people may advocate total fashion freedom, others may espose a more moderate stance. I suggest that you just use the phrase: "advocating fashion freedom for men" - and leave it to individuals to discuss on the forum how far or not that goes.

2) I don't like this bit at all: (men should be "allowed" to wear anything decent, even outfits considered feminine by many). The word "allowed", even in apostropes is not suitable. Who allows us? I think it should read: (Men should feel free . . . ). And I think the second part of that sentence is rather judgemental. As it reads at present, "anything decent" couple with the word EVEN and then "outfits considered feminine . . " - is almost saying that feminine outfits are on the verge of indecency. Perhaps it's just me, but that was my impression. I would prefer if it read: (men should feel free to wear anything, provided they are not indecent, including items that may be considered feminine by many)

3) The bit (exploring our inner gender landscape, which may range from masculine to androgynous) should mention the feminine as well.
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Pythos
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Post by Pythos »

This one may be a bit harder, but I think it will be a tremendous help.

If you view a topic, you must respond at least once. No more 101 views with no response incidences. If you initially view it, it shows you at least had interest at that moment. If the thread poses no interest, then politely respond with something like "I find no interest in..." perhaps with an explanation why,in a manner that does not put down the poster (unless the poster indeed deserves to be put down.)

This is one of my major beefs with sites like this. Hundreds of members, many many views, but very little or no response. The Atrium is notorious for this. I am not sure about others here, but I do not just post here to see my words on the screen, I post for feedback.

Hope these ideas help with the formation of the new forum.
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crfriend
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Thoughts on "mandatory" posting and put-downs

Post by crfriend »

Pythos recently brought up the notion of "you should respond to a thread if you read it" which, on the face of it, seems reasonable enough, but probably doesn't "scale" terribly well. Right now, according to the database, we have 371 users (not all of whom are active); if every member that looked at a thread had to comment on it, pretty soon each thread would be so cluttered that it'd be difficult to discern anything of value from all the "Yup, saw that." replies. Further confounding the issue is that guests to the forum can view threads but cannot, by policy, reply to them (it keeps the S/N ratio high) although a guest reading a post bumps the "view" counter.

As far as knocking another member directly, the community as a whole takes a dim view of that; viz the recent spectacle which infuriated several otherwise peaceful citizens. We should be challenging ideas, not individuals, and nobody should take a direct challenge of an idea to be a personal affront.
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ChrisM
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[[Rubber Stamp]]

Post by ChrisM »

"I certify that I have viewed this thread and have no useful comment to make."
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Post by Stevie D »

Pythos wrote:This one may be a bit harder, but I think it will be a tremendous help.

If you view a topic, you must respond at least once. No more 101 views with no response incidences. If you initially view it, it shows you at least had interest at that moment. If the thread poses no interest, then politely respond with something like "I find no interest in..." perhaps with an explanation why,in a manner that does not put down the poster (unless the poster indeed deserves to be put down.)

This is one of my major beefs with sites like this. Hundreds of members, many many views, but very little or no response. The Atrium is notorious for this. I am not sure about others here, but I do not just post here to see my words on the screen, I post for feedback.

Hope these ideas help with the formation of the new forum.
Pythos - you keep batting on about this 'if you read the post, you should respond' thing. I've tried to explain to you over on the Atrium and others have also tried here, yet you still keep going on and on about it - it's getting tedious.

Whether or not someone responds to your posts is an indication of the range of interests different people will have. You just have to accept that some people will click on and read a post out of curiosity, only to find that it is not really interesting to them after all. There is no obligation on them to respond, saying 'sorry, not interested, clicked in error, shouldn't have done it. don't take it personally....'. It would only clutter things up, as crfriend has said.

Just to remind you, and to inform non-Atrium readers, here's what I replied to you over on the Atrium a couple of days ago. It clearly fell on deaf ears (or should that be blind eyes?):

The many viewings of your 'leggings' topic did indeed indicate at least some degree of interest, but clearly, among the people who did read it, there was not sufficient personal motivation to respond. That's OK - they probably have other priorities (as I do, which is why I didn't respond). Just accept that you will probably never get lots of replies; it's not an insult or any diminishment of who and what you are. It's just normal, everyday life. But if you constantly complain about it, that's when others will start to wonder whether you are a serial whinger.

I don't know what else I can say to make it any clearer. I'll go and lie down now.
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sapphire
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Me too

Post by sapphire »

I have to support crfriend's and Steve D's sentiments about viewing and posting.

If you will notice I haven't posted much this week. I'm in the middle of working three rescues, two locally in Massachusetts and one in Virginia. I have a disaster response training session tomorrow and one of my cats has a sore eye and I need to take her to the vet.

I've been reading posts, but am so strung out with rescue, et al that I just haven't had the wherewithal to compose responses.

While I care about fashion freedom, saving lives has a higher priority for me, so that's where my efforts have gone.

If the threads were cluttered up with "me too" posts, I'd never be able to keep up and would probably stop participating altogether, because it would simply take too much of my time to get to any response of value.
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Post by Departed Member »

Pythos wrote: I am not sure about others here, but I do not just post here to see my words on the screen, I post for feedback.
Mmnn, yet when some of us take the trouble to reply (both out of politeness and in total honestly) and their views do not coincide with yours, you've resorted to abuse and name calling.

Whilst one can appreciate that there has been a lot of 'fashion house' hype about trying to 'mainstream' leggings for men recently (splashed on national TV news, etc., etc.), the reactions of "Joe Public" have been no different to the interest level shown here, i.e., no interest whatsoever! We'd surely end up like "X Marks", all 'billing & cooing', if replies were made 'just for the sake of it', would we not?
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Post by ChristopherJ »

If you view a topic, you must respond at least once.
That is an absolute no-no for me. Also, I have never seen such a rule on any internet forum that I have looked at. In any case, I don't see the point. The number of views of a thread gives some indication of how popular the subject is. Not everyone will want to respond in any way - many people simply enjoy "lurking" and reading what others have posted.

I often look at a thread very casually - have a quick glance at what it is all about - and then leave. If I do not choose to post anything - then that is my choice and I cherish the freedom that I have to be able to make that choice.
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Re: [[Rubber Stamp]]

Post by SkirtDude »

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Pythos
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Post by Pythos »

Honestly guys, what is so hard about responding to a post you view? Merlin, you did respond.. with a snide little comment about seeing why I would respond to my own post.

Chris J. Why is responding when viewing an "absolute no no" for you? You took the time to open the topic, so there must have been interest.

Steve D. A long while ago you said point blank to me, you would not respond to anymore of my posts. Seems you were wrong eh? (This was at the attrium if you don't recall) I keep harping on the many views no response, it cause my view is, why be a part of a community if you don't actively participate. viewing without responding is not actual participation. It would be like going to Rocky Horror picture, and just watching the live action people, and not the audience participation. (the one I went to, you HAD to participate, or the next time you showed up, you were imediately labled a "virgin" and had to participate in the "Virgin games":)

Another member's objection to the idea was that it was not feasible due to the vast numbers of members here. But only about 20% (from what I have seen) participate, so the number of responses should not be all that bad.

And to most who have responded, this is not an idea for the skirt cafe. This is one for the Freestyle cafe, and from what I gather of most who responded you are not for total fashion freedom, but instead fashion with limits, mostly limited to certain style skirts. So why would you go to such a site anyhow?... Is it that old interested thing again?

Also, another person stated no other boards have such a rule. Well, perhaps they should. Just because other boards don't have such a rule, does not mean the same should be for another board.

In short, give it a try. Perhaps it may add to the forum experience.
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Post by crfriend »

ChrisM, thanks so much for that little quip of yours; I'm still chuckling about it.

"Mandating" (by whatever process) a response for looking at a thread generates needless, meaningless traffic, and that traffic would seriously erode the functionality, and enjoyability, of the forum. Having to wade through an endless stream of "Saw that", "Me too!", or "Yup." responses seriously dilutes not only the original post at the head of the thread, but also any cogent replies to it. It's just better to keep the post count down by not posting meaningless messages; the signal to noise (S/N) ratio stays high that way.

Also, mandating replies smacks of attendance being taken -- just like it was in kindergarten.
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