Acceptable photo policy

[ChristopherJ]

Showing an upskirt shot of a pair of startlingly-white knickers, whilst possibly "educational" (in a sense) does nothing that couldn't have been said in a narrative, and really doesn't say anything that any of us weren't already aware of (at least those of us with some modicum of modesty); what it does say, however, is that flashing one's knickers in public may be acceptable, or at least titillating to others (it's not: even on pretty women it's vulgar).

In my opinion, in the context of that post (with the upskirt photo), your comments are wrong in both respects.

1) It did make a point that could not have been made in a narrative - as the photo was a visual example of the point being made - about posture while sitting. Although most men who wear skirts would already be aware of the need for care when sitting etc. the photo was a good example of the fact that even though you may be very careful, you may nevertheless be sat in an indecent fashion without being aware of it.

2) The post concerned (with the upskirt photo) certainly did not in any way say that flashing ones knickers in public may be acceptable or titillating. I'd like you know where you got that interpretation from - because that was not my perception of the post or the photo. In fact, the poster made clear from the start that he was only posting that photograph in order to illustrate a point.

[Departed Member]

I'm afraid I have to agree 100% with Carl has said on this issue - there is absolutely no necessity for 'upskirt' phots to 'illustrate' potential 'gaffes'.

It must also be pointed out, however, that such photos, provided the
genital area is covered by underwear do not, particularly in UK law, constitute 'indecency'. That said, from a personal perspective, I would prefer not to see such photos here. I suspect I'm in the (vast?) majority of contributers here, too. Although John(?) has since made his intent clear, that is not how I (and obviously others) interpreted the original post.

It has to be impossible for physically mature bloke to 'sit in an indecent fashion without being aware of it', let's be honest!

[crfriend]

In my opinion, in the context of that post (with the upskirt photo), your comments are wrong in both respects.

Grrrr. This is one point where I'd really appreciate private messaging capabilities...

1) It did make a point that could not have been made in a narrative - as the photo was a visual example of the point being made - about posture while sitting.

I offer no disrespect, but I believe you underestimate the power of the written language. Whilst, yes, a blatant in-your-face image does have a large shock value, a gentler one could be just as effective without the displayed imagery. The fact that it was posted twice is what got my goat. I'm no newbie to the notion of "upskirt" shots; hell, when I was younger I liked to try and catch the occasional glimpse (what adolescent male doesn't?!), but that's subsided now and has, interestingly, provided a rich source of memories of how not to do things.

2) The post concerned (with the upskirt photo) certainly did not in any way say that flashing ones knickers in public may be acceptable or titillating. I'd like you know where you got that interpretation from - because that was not my perception of the post or the photo. In fact, the poster made clear from the start that he was only posting that photograph in order to illustrate a point.

I fully understand the original poster's intent, as stated, and admit that I may have "stretched things" a bit; however, I stand by my assertion that in a forum such as this, with its fairly conservative mores, graphic visuals can be better dealt with in narrative rather than in imagery.

The moral of the story, if there is one to be had, is to keep your knees together if you're wearing a short skirted garment that won't settle naturally, and wholly predictably, between your legs when sitting. I'm not railling against short skirts -- not by a long-shot -- but I will express distress about short skirts that are handled incompetently (and not keeping one's knees together when sitting in such a garment almost defines incompetence in wearing it). Practise in front of a mirror if you have to (or, for the more technologically up to date, use a web-cam, they're cheap) before heading out into public; ask the advice (and observations from) significant others; and, above all, remember what you're wearing. (That last piece of advice came from a young woman I know who used to be a waitress at my local "watering hole" who spoke those very words when I asked her how she managed short (shorter than I'd ever dare) skirts; it stuck in my mind.)

[AMM]

Most of the discussion seems to have focussed on John's posting about care in sitting in short skirts. From what I know of John from his postings, I rather suspect that he would never have posted the pictures if he'd know he would get this kind of reaction. While it's good to talk about -- and disagree about -- what it's OK and not OK to post, let's try to treat one another as friends. One of the perennial problems of electronic communication is that it's easy to sound more confrontational than we mean to be.

On the other hand, I've seen no discussion of some other pictures that were posted that I thought really did not belong here: the gymnasium pictures under the topic "Unusual Places/Activities that you've worn a skirt?" in the forum "Skirts and Kilts for Men." It was these that lead me to start this thread, not John's pictures.

Is there general agreement that pictures like this, offered in the spirit which they seemed to be offered, have no place at this site?

+ + + + +

Finally, I'd like to say that I don't have any fundamental objection to (consensual!) up-skirt shots, discussion of underwear, etc. -- I just don't think they belong here. I think they're fine if posted at a site intended for those topics: doing so gives me the choice of whether to look at them/join in the discussion or not.

-- AMM

[Bob]

Hey guys, thanks for the input.

I think I'm going to make this really simple. Picutres with underwear showing will be deleted. I understand that there was a difference in intent in the various cases --- but intent is a slippery thing to deal with. The Sears catalog shows underwear, but SkirtCafe does not.

I have removed all the underwear shots (that I'm aware of). If anyone wants to notify me about objectionable photos --- my email address is in bold on the main page.

[knickerless]

On the other hand, I've seen no discussion of some other pictures that were posted that I thought really did not belong here: the gymnasium pictures under the topic "Unusual Places/Activities that you've worn a skirt?" in the forum "Skirts and Kilts for Men." It was these that lead me to start this thread, not John's pictures.

I though that was the main point of my two posts on this subject - I stated I very concerned about someone being alone in a large deserted gym with ripped shorts showing his knickers.

Nick

[iain]

I agree totally with Bob. I saw some photos recently, posted by someone new to the board and I got really spooked. I almost quit the site, not wanting to be associated with that sort of image. The thing seemed really seedy. It made me feel uncomfortable but other posters seemed oblivious, and continued the PC cuddling. I really wondered if maybe it was me being obtuse.

I guess the balance between something which seems seedy or healthy is an internal process, different for everyone. But despite the variation inside people's minds, there must still be standards which should be consistent and if so, you rely on moderators for that reason.

When someone gets to the point where they can't recognise "seedy" from "healthy" they will not be aware of anything wrong in themslves. Even psychopaths think they are normal. So some people will be offended at any censorship. You can't decide on a course of action based on how it will affect smeone who is not thinking straight. The aim of having a forum is not to bend everything out of shape to accomodate every single warp in every person's mind. We have to have some standards and so I fully support what Bob said.

[ChristopherJ]

Most of the discussion seems to have focussed on John's posting about care in sitting in short skirts. From what I know of John from his postings, I rather suspect that he would never have posted the pictures if he'd know he would get this kind of reaction. While it's good to talk about -- and disagree about -- what it's OK and not OK to post, let's try to treat one another as friends.

I just want to say quickly that I have no problem with anyone here. We may agree to disagree regarding some issues sometimes - and that's fine and healthy in my opinion, but we can still respect each other. I was very gratified to see that - while some posters here did not agree with my views about a certain upskirt photo that was posted - they expressed their own opinions in a friendly and respectful way. I really do appreciate that - and this is one reason why I like this forum very much.

Regarding Bob's decision on the photographs. I agree about the deletion of photos showing underwear, as I can see this is necessary to keep out any seedy stuff etc.

[Milfmog]

Regarding Bob's decision on the photographs. I agree about the deletion of photos showing underwear, as I can see this is necessary to keep out any seedy stuff etc.

Even though I'm not sure that I actually agree with the removal of John's picture (I never doubted that his intent was simply to illustrate a point) it's Bob who does all the work of managing this forum and since we're here I have to assume that most of the time, most of us approve of the way Bob runs it and on that basis I absolutely support a simple rule that is easy to judge and clear to all.

Bob,

You commented that you do not read every post and asked that anyone who spots something inappropriate brings it to your attention. If you could add an "Inform moderator about this post" button to the row that appear at the bottom of every post* that could serve both as an easy way to let you know and a reminder to all posters to think before clicking "submit".

Have fun,


Ian.

* Please keep any report button well away from all the other buttons to avoid getting lots of accidental reports from careless mouser users.

[Since1982]

Quote Mk3, This site seems like since it was redone, it has become even more strict and intolerant of people expressing themselves and having honest/relevant questions that are either being censored or otherwise locked and erased.unquote.
Gee, I've been a member since 2004 and this site doesn't seem intolerant to me. There are plenty of "show all", punk rock, and otherwise "out there" sites with men in MUGs. In my opinion, this site is for like minded skirt/kilt wearing men to fraternize and chat about their various experiences in the public world skirted. I think I speak for the main membership and welcome adverse points of view as long as the purveyors of them don't try to shove them down our throats or present distastful or indiscreet photos of themselves doing things that are unusual/indiscreet around ANY skirt wearing, or other people in any walk of life. "People" is including men and women.

I wish we had more emoticons to pick from. [/quote]

[SkirtDude]

deleted

[david30101]

Damm people....Dont get your "granny pantys" in a bind!....Like i said, it will offend most of you..Which to me are the same few people here. BTW. i work nights so the gym is convenient to my schedule on weekends and is a new trend in USA where its avalible 24 hours a day with a security card. Since most of you are old enougth to be my parents and probably look it also (size 15 and up) mabie you need the gym as well...

[Since1982]

Yup, mabie wee dew.

If and I repeat, IF you get as old as some of us here, David, you might be a bit paunchy too. Most young people with an attitude don't have the opportunity to get as old as we are. Someone with a very short fuse possibly shortens their lives. Not that I wish that on you. Looking at one's own faults is a good idea before ranting on about other folks' shortcomings.

[Departed Member]

Damm people....Dont get your "granny pantys" in a bind!....Like i said, it will offend most of you..Which to me are the same few people here. BTW. i work nights so the gym is convenient to my schedule on weekends and is a new trend in USA where its avalible 24 hours a day with a security card. Since most of you are old enougth to be my parents and probably look it also (size 15 and up) mabie you need the gym as well...

I'm not being difficult, but it would probably help folk understand where you are 'coming from' a little better, if you could make your point(s) a little more coherently. Taking wild 'pot shots' at folk you don't know (such as snide comments about their age) is not going to endear yourself to this 'community'. I'm sure there are several here who have ripped the inseam out of shorts, in a bid to create a 'skirt', but most have 'grown up' a little since then, I reckon. You want to take a tilt at those of us who are overweight? Fine! I don't understand your 'Size Discrimination Barrier', either. Is it something local to the USA? You want me to go to a gym? Yeah, if I want to guarantee coming out of there in a wheelchair, on a permanent basis, that'd be just great! I'm running some four stone (if you know what that is) overweight. Regretably, I am unable to do any 'sensible' exercise to 'work it off'. However, when I was your age, I was perfectly fit - didn't need to resort to a gym, either! Skip's quite right, you know - anything can happen to you along life's highway! If you feel you've already 'offended' (yeah, right - not!) the majority here, then there are, apparently, lots of body-building websites where you just might 'feel more at home'?

[Bob]

David:

You are new to this community, and you need to abide by its social norms. Over time, if you choose to participate, your voice will become one of many that helps shape the community in the future. That is the same opportunity available to anyone else on Skirt Cafe, myself included. Not more, not less.

You may feel frustrated that Skirt Cafe is something other than what you might wish for yourself. If that is the case, then you are free to find another community more to your liking, or to start your own. I make no moral judgement on your photos, they are just not appropriate for this community.

However, you are not free to take verbal pot shots at our members, or to otherwise show disrespect. Mutual respect for each other is a key value at Skirt Cafe, one which others have embodied in their interactions iwth you so far.

Or put more simply: your post above violates our policy of mutual respect. But I am not going to delete it. I know I can rely our membership to show you respect in spite of the disrespect you have shown us.

So please... next time, show a little bit more respect for all of us at Skirt Cafe.