Welcome to SkirtCafe --- change from Tom's

[binx]

Unfortunately for me, I had fashion freedom before, during, and after my participation in Tom's Cafe.

Steven

How was that unfortunate for you?

binx

[Since1982]

Apologies to Lar and all that might have been put off by some of my posts on this thread. My A/C had been off 3 days when I wrote those ill conceived responses. My mood was foul and everyone near me was getting either ignored or hollered at. Again Sorry for that. 105 degree F heat and 100% humidity will do that to you. A/C is fixed now and I'm back in my usual happy go lucky self. I've deleted the offensive posts so no one new has to see them. Skip

[Bravehearts.us]

I'm among some of the people that came forward to keep Tom's Cafe going.

One of the stipulations I had if I were to take it over was to keep the name, in doing this I knew a great deal of trust would have needed to exist in doing so. To change the name would be like someone changing the name of the color red, everything it stood for, emotions, passions, and thoughts, about red would now have to be focused to another new unknown name. Skirt Cafe may thrive just as Tom's Cafe did, only it's patrons and time will tell.

I didn't find out about Noodles decision until Tom's Cafe was closed and this forum was brought online and didn't hear from him until the day after it was done.

Unfortunately for me, I had fashion freedom before, during, and after my participation in Tom's Cafe.

Unfortunately also you will not see me posting often as I've moved on in how I am involved in male equality.

And I already don't post much, and most likely will be posting less as there are many people I have had the pleasure of confronting, as such, some of these people now monitor the places I post too see what I am doing.

I will still visit every now and then, and who knows, maybe become more involved in places such as this again.

Congratulations to Bob for running the new forum, and kudos to Noodles for running Tom's Cafe till now.

Steven

Steven,
Remember when we met here? Remember the circumstances and how they intensified our relationship as you were hurt and I was misunderstood and blasted because of a post I made to you just before MSM? Remember how we all worked constructively through that and how everything came together with a happy ending? I think we all learned a lot from that. Those are the kinds of experiences that made this message board unique at that time, not to mention all the fun that sort of thing leads up to. You were a big part of that as each one of us was. As a matter of fact, if you think about it, it never would have happened if each of us didn’t play out our parts.

So let’s just take Steven out of it for a minute. None of the posts before MSM, none of the pictures, none of the newspaper articles, none of the arguments or “great debates” after MSM and none of the interactions or controversies that involve you or that were because of you took place. There was no Steven at MSM, at the march, or at Lumi’s Restaurant. None of us met, talked to or experienced each other. We never influenced or inspired each other. Everything leading up to Feb. 7th 2004 and everything leading away from that day doesn’t exist. Your memories of us and our memories of you are gone. We are missing that experience. Think how different things would be, today, for all of us who were involved if it just didn’t happen. But it did and it’s because you were here. So if you’re not going to be here in the future, our futures are going to be different; yours and ours. That goes for any of us.

"I'm among some of the people that came forward to keep Tom's Cafe going."
Help us to keep it going now. We need people like you who stir thoughts.
I will miss your posts, your thoughts and the YOU that goes into them if you leave. Please reconsider
Lar

[Bravehearts.us]

Apologies to Lar and all that might have been put off by some of my posts on this thread. My A/C had been off 3 days when I wrote those ill conceived responses. My mood was foul and everyone near me was getting either ignored or hollered at. Again Sorry for that. 105 degree F heat and 100% humidity will do that to you. A/C is fixed now and I'm back in my usual happy go lucky self. I've deleted the offensive posts so no one new has to see them. Skip

Sometimes it just takes the realization of why someone’s button is getting pushed to change a person’s feelings. That was the case with you and me. Until your email, I didn’t know what you were going through and so I didn’t understand. Once you told me, I then understood and it changed my thoughts and feelings completely. Like I said in my email to you, there is no need to apologize. But I want you to know that I can’t help but admire you for doing so.
Lar

[Steven]

How was that unfortunate for you?

binx

Sorry Binx, I keep coming to your question, but find it hard to explain as too my thoughts on it.

I guess for one I didn't need Tom's Cafe to be who I was or to say there is nothing wrong with me. During my stay I usually caused a lot of stir, so much that it usually was not worth it at times to argue the point.

To be honest, Tom was not a man I looked up to, I admired him for what he did and what he was doing, but I was not one to be looking up to him for such things. Instead I found myself at the same level as him, trying to do the same things in creating awareness and equality. Perhaps if I was involved early on in the Cafe and kept some leg showing, things may have been different.

At times I hate my passion, it consumes me to a ferocity that sometimes scares me. I already do a lot of things, but I know there is so much more I could do then I am doing now and it iritates me to no end at the obstacles placed in front of people such as us that do not deserve it.

I was saddened by Tom's passing, I only knew him for a short while, but it was not hard for me to understand who he was.

It's unfortunate for me as to who and what I am compared to Tom's Cafe.

Steven,
Remember when we met here?
>SNIP<
Help us to keep it going now. We need people like you who stir thoughts.
I will miss your posts, your thoughts and the YOU that goes into them if you leave. Please reconsider
Lar

Hello Lar,

I never said I was leaving, I already do not post much here, as I said, there are people who watch what I do (I've recieved private emails and messages to posts I have made from people who said I was lying about what was said, only those who were there in person could have known what was said) which is mostly why I do not elaborate much, or say much.

I have my fashion freedom, but to be honest, I do not wear my skirts or kilts much, why? Well currently I am working seven days a week, my job entails doing everything, from mopping floors, cashiering, welding, rebuilding engines, etc. Trousers work better overall for what my job is, most of my workers can get away with shorts for their job, I advise against skirts or kilts on anyone for safety.

In the off season, I excersize my freedom a bit more, I went shopping with a friend of mine and acquired a few more items to wear, but my everyday wear is still sparse. My everday travels are worse as I'm a convicted hermit, going out doing stuff is not big on my list.

I still skate, (although not lately given the time I need at work this year and the passing of my dad in the fall) but I am still blacklisted and the bigotry I face for my attire is widespread and blunt. New places I visit usually tolerate me the first time around, after that they create new sexist rules. Unfortunately this is something some places can do since there is nothing saying they cant. Changing the underlaying unwritten rules into something black and white is a long process. Such rules shouldn't need to be written, but we all see the ramifications and detrimental actions by others and what they get away with.

For me, I created my own websites so that I could air out my own thoughts, course I've been harrased by some in saying I pretended to be the people that responded to some of my thoughts. My places are slower then wood getting petrified, which is fine given the overflowing of my plate most of the time.

The amount of work I've done for no positive or any results baffels me, and while I've been approached by a number of people who want to write about male fashion freedom, little has come to fruition.

Overall, I don't feel like posting about all the little stuff that happens to me, it's time consuming and mostly pointless (to me anyways)

Fear not, I will always be lurking, but tales, elaborations, or Eureka's will be few.

I appreciate your thoughts Lar, you are indeed one of the many people I can call a friend, and a person I'm glad to have met.

Steven

[Bravehearts.us]

Steven,
I'd be interested in how you've move on in male equality. I think you know that is one of the things I have a huge interest in.
Lar

[Stevie D]

.... My A/C had been off 3 days when I wrote those ill conceived responses. My mood was foul and everyone near me was getting either ignored or hollered at. Again Sorry for that. 105 degree F heat and 100% humidity will do that to you. A/C is fixed now and I'm back in my usual happy go lucky self. ...

Skip - Just curious .... what's A/C ? Your power supply (Alternating Current)?

[crfriend]

Just curious .... what's A/C ? Your power supply (Alternating Current)?

Air Conditioning. It's pretty much the only thing that makes the tropics inhabitable by humans. That, and pesticides.

[Steven]

Steven,
I'd be interested in how you've move on in male equality. I think you know that is one of the things I have a huge interest in.
Lar

Hi Lar,

I've moved on in what I do for Male Equality, I want to be out there in the front line making noise and make people listen.

I've written many articles to people and have even been invited to be a speaker at gender awareness events by the GPAC and the ACLU. But it is still a hard fight as the dates have come and gone with no further corespondance from them. I've been approached by others to write about the ordeals I have had to go through, only for it to stall before print. And even the one article that did make it to print was swiftly pulled from the online archives.

The problem is that a lot of people I talk to say the same thing I say, males already have the right to wear alternative clothing, there is no law against it. Yet there is also no law that says a male cannot be discriminated against for wearing alternative clothing. So when a male does and gets denied, does he have a leg to stand on?

Right now, no, everything is on a case by case basis, there is no hard and fast rule or national standard as to how to treat a male who is not wearing traditional attire. Places decide in how they are going to deal with it, most of the time as we have seen, it's no big deal and the only hangups of doing it are in our head.

But I am past all that and have the enviable postition in having to deal with people who are detrimental to me since I have fashion freedom. Few people understand that bigotry comes in more colors then black and white.

So in moving on I have written to my senator, congressman, mayor, councilman, local media such as paper and television, national media to such shows about humanity, and even the President of the United States, and the answer is........ Nothing, thats right, NOTHING, nobody has ever replied back saying anything.

In going in some round about ways to get some answers, the answer is, "Males are treated equaly, if he is treated unequaly since he's wearing a skirt, then he deserves it, we see no problems with this thinking"

Anytime I see this happen it's off I go, I write, I post, I counter every point and false belief. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe not, I never get any answers back to my writings. I have been put into a corner by a few people, most of them have regreted it as I do not give up, I keep whittling them away until they have nothing. The only regret I have now is that I am past the point of using words and the next step is going to court. Some people think I will be shamed for letting my skirt wearing be known, but how can you shame someone who doesn't lie? I have no regrets, I am too honest for my own good, and theirs nothing they can prove otherwise as to who I am, assumptions do not make convictions.

That is why I have moved on, I want to be in their face demanding actions, I want the detrimental actions inflicted upon me by others to be put to an end, I want fair treatment just like anyone else. I want to march if needed, I want to lobby, I want everyone to know that males deserve equality and the lack of it is killing them.

My 2c,

Steven

[Stevie D]

Air Conditioning. It's pretty much the only thing that makes the tropics inhabitable by humans. That, and pesticides.

Oh yes! Of course! I should have thought of this. Not something we go in for a lot here in Sheffield. My car has air conditioning, but it's not something I ever seem to need. I just open the window a bit.
Thanks CRFriend!

[Since1982]

Air Conditioning..I guess I should have said that. You guys in the north and in the UK probably don't need that in the summer. But, in the winter, when you guys in the north and the UK are wearing layers and layers of clothing outside, it's about 70 degrees F here. Gotta put up with the heat in the summer to get the mild temperatures in the winter. Snow is something I only see in movies like "Misery". I was born in Reading Pennsylvania though and do remember how dangerous snow can be. I don't miss it even a teeny bit. I'll be changing my personal avatar soon to reflect the weight loss. Tomorrow Judy is going to shoot me a few times. :whiteflag

[Stevie D]

Air Conditioning..I guess I should have said that. You guys in the north and in the UK probably don't need that in the summer. But, in the winter, when you guys in the north and the UK are wearing layers and layers of clothing outside, it's about 70 degrees F here. Gotta put up with the heat in the summer to get the mild temperatures in the winter. Snow is something I only see in movies like "Misery". I was born in Reading Pennsylvania though and do remember how dangerous snow can be. I don't miss it even a teeny bit. .....

Thanks Skip,
We don't get a lot of snow in Sheffield in the winter, usually no more than a couple of inches for just a few days, although on the high moorland to the west of the city in the Peak District there is often quite a bit more.

[davereporter]

Well,

I am just happy to see that the Cafe is continuing and there is still a spot on the net for men to discuss wearing something other than pants.

Congratulations to all for making it happen.

Personally I don't see the name as a problems. As long as the posts are somewhat moderated (by the posters and then the moderators as a last resort) there should not be any problems.

My personal view is that a skirt is a skirt. After years of feeling ashamed of the word I am now over it. I can ask my SO where is my skirt, or have you put my skirt in the wash or (and this one took considerable effort to overcome), I picked up a new skirt today, what do you think.

Jeans are jeans - both men and women wear them. The same with pants, shirts, tops, undies, singlets, shorts, shoes etc. Aside from gender specific items such as bras (which most guys have no use for), humans essentially wear the same clothing. No point pretending that girls wear skirts and boys wear kilts, sulus, sarongs, caftans etc. We are only creating more problems for ourselves later when we want to wear a denim unbifabricated garment that does not have a wrap or apron (ie. a skirt).

Let's wear our skirts with pride. Thank Tom for inspiring the Cafe but carry on in the present.

Down with pants and up with skirts - or something to that effect anyway:cheer:

[Big and Bashful]

Is it my imagination or is it extremely quiet in the cafe these days? I am missing the banter!