New Forum Area

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New Forum Area

Postby hoborob » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:13 am

Since it has been discussed extensively in another forum. I would suggest that possibly we could add another forum area for Political discussions. Perhaps with the description added saying that you "Enter this area at your own risk, No hurt feelings allowed." Then change the rules so that it is stated that Political discussions are only allowed in the Politics section.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby Sinned » Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:01 am

If you did that then you'd have to include religion and, gulp, guns. I'm not sure that we need one though - just post in the Off Topic section and start the subject area with Politics, or Religion or Guns followed by a more relevant tag line. Then those that don't want to read them can ignore the threads. There may want to be a change though to the search criteria. It should be possible in your personal section to have a list of criteria not to be included in the search as a series of tick boxes. The search would look in the subject area for the words Politics, Religion or Guns and not include those threads in the final list. It does require strict adherence to the rules though.

BUT it doesn't account for thread drift which as we know can veer very much off-centre to the left or to the right. A lot of the discussions on the verboten topics have resulted from a throwaway remark.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:25 am

I think either would work, but I like the straight-forwardness of Dennis's suggestion.

I would add to it that by gentlemen's agreement if we feel the urge to drift into politics, we open a new topic and that if anyone sees that the agreement has been ignored, they can open the new topic and direct conversation there.

I would hope that whenever someone does that they would be treated as a hero rather than a buzz-kill.

Deal?
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby Tor » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:52 am

I prefer Dennis's suggestion as more suitable, though in practice, it seems there isn't always a clear line when a thread that might turn political or such is merely a couple random remarks or a pages long diversion. In any case, it is perfectly reasonable, and probably a good idea, to try to start a new thread for the diversion and post a pointer to the new thread in the original. That said, I suspect that in most cases we are a friendly and close enough bunch that we treat the threads as parallel, drawn out conversations taking place over days or longer, rather than an entirely topic-driven bulletin board. I do think this is part of what keeps us together, so I would be very wary of adding any rules.

To shorten the above, I would second the suggestion of potentially annoying to some diversions being directed to a new post by gentlemen's agreement without an official rule.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby oldsalt1 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:29 pm

This political circus has been thrown in our face for way to long a time. It is impossible for almost anyone (myself included)to have a discussion with out the thread of this garbage entering the flow. What I do appreciate is that the comments of the members of the cafe (no matter which side they favor) are based on research and knowledge of the situation. Once this ends hopefully we can get back to the important thing, wearing skirts. I would not start a political forum just keep the discussion as off topic.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby crfriend » Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:56 pm

In the unlikely event that I decided to instantiate a "Politics" sub-forum, there's a good chance that'd it take the form of a write-only area or a FINO [0] buffer.

That said, "unlikely" is not the operative term; put more simply, the answer is a flat, "No." Or to nuance that a bit, we already have a spot for this topic: Off Topic (although that cannot reliably deal with the inevitable thread-drift) so adding another "Off Topic" sub-forum would merely clutter the front page needlessly. Going on a bit deeper than that, having a "Politics" sub-forum in the "Off Topic" sub-forum is needlessly confusing, although if one puts it down deep enough it effectively becomes a write-only area because nobody, save for the very brave or very foolhardy, could find it.


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Re: New Forum Area

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:57 pm

I have no idea what a FINO memory area is and may not want to.

That said, I think your feeling that the Off Topic, News/Advocacy areas suffice for our political conversations is right on. We're particularly prone to political conversations at this particular time because the Presidential election and primaries have been so compelling. (Who says Donald Trump hasn't done anything positive for our political discourse?)
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby crfriend » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:02 pm

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:I have no idea what a FINO memory area is and may not want to.

But it was explained by the footnote! :( (And one needn't be an EE or a CS major to "get it".)

Spoiler for the impatient: FINO == "First In Never Out", a write-only memory, the bit-bucket, /dev/null, or immediately tossing everything overboard.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby hoborob » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:18 pm

Well all I can say is if you don't make a suggestion, you will never get something that might make sense. the idea has been shot down (in flames I might add) but such as it is with suggestions. Some are good and some are not so good. You never know unless you make the suggestion. This one was considered and found to be wanting. I'm not bothered at all.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby crfriend » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:33 pm

hoborob wrote:Well all I can say is if you don't make a suggestion, you will never get something that might make sense.

This is absolutely true, and despite me putting a slug into the idea the suggestion was valid and was actively considered.

Thanks -- and I mean it -- for broaching it. If questions don't get posed, answers may not be considered. (See my various commentary on, "There's no such thing as a stupid question.")
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby Disaffected.citizen » Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:22 am

crfriend wrote:
hoborob wrote:Well all I can say is if you don't make a suggestion, you will never get something that might make sense.

This is absolutely true, and despite me putting a slug into the idea the suggestion was valid and was actively considered.

Thanks -- and I mean it -- for broaching it. If questions don't get posed, answers may not be considered. (See my various commentary on, "There's no such thing as a stupid question.")

Except the one that isn't asked!
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby SkirtedWelshman » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:43 am

Just my thoughts, for what they are worth. Why politics? Most people get politics all the time. It's nice not to go to a place where it is free of such 'stuff' . You can get that down the pub/bar.

The membership of this site is international, why would we in Britain, want to hear tied U.S. moans and vice versa. Why you Americans want the boring details of British politics?

You start off adding politics, than other topics start to feed in and the website loses the things that make it special and unique.

Political debate encourage strong feelings, then insults and 'put-downs'. Not a good way to go, I would suggest.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby Disaffected.citizen » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:29 am

I have no desire to see a new area; I think the fora function fairly well as they are.

As regards the removal of the discussion of politics, using the narrow definition of "formal politics" it might just be possible, but by merely discussing this topic we are already into the politics of the functioning of said fora. It is simply not possible to remove politics from life; whether you are a man choosing to wear a skirt, or anybody bemoaning the price of gasoline, etc., you are already into politics. From the schoolyard onwards, you will be embroiled in some form of politics throughout life; what is distinctly unpleasant is when those political discussions degenerate into personal insults and worse.

So, I "take my hat off" to the moderators, and "tip it" in the direction of the members here that we are generally able to have such civilised exchange. Everyone has the right here to contribute or not as they wish or see fit; if we overstep the mark, somebody will likely let us know with a firm but fair communiqué.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby Stevie D » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:51 am

SkirtedWelshman wrote:Just my thoughts, for what they are worth. Why politics? Most people get politics all the time. It's nice not to go to a place where it is free of such 'stuff' . You can get that down the pub/bar.

The membership of this site is international, why would we in Britain, want to hear tied U.S. moans and vice versa. Why you Americans want the boring details of British politics?


You have already answered your question - this site has international membership. Politics affects all our lives including, in extreme cases and potentially relevant to this site, the freedoms we have over the type of clothing we might choose to wear. I may live in Yorkshire, England, but I am very interested, if not troubled, by the shenanigans surrounding the American presidential elections. The outcome of that will affect ALL our lives globally whether we like it or not. On the other side, how and when the UK severs its membership of the EU will have global implications for trade, movement and citizenship which similarly has the potential to affect all our lives.

I am very interested to know the views of members of this forum (this international community) on such political issues - it helps us understand one another better, which can only be a good thing. But as has been said several times, if you don't want to participate in a particular topic, then just don't - no-one is forcing you.
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Re: New Forum Area

Postby crfriend » Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:03 pm

SkirtedWelshman wrote:Why [would] you Americans want the boring details of British politics?

From a personal perspective, as an "outsider", I quite enjoyed the more cogent commentary here about the Brexit referendum; the less cogent, and polite, parts of it were accompanied by some scolding now and then, but it was very interesting to hear about it's inner workings by the people enmeshed in it. That provides input that might be useful in other contexts from time to time. So it's not all a waste. Ditto the occasional drift into Scottish independence, again, when it stays civil.
You start off adding politics, than other topics start to feed in and the website loses the things that make it special and unique.

This is where it does, however, start turning into trash-talk and is precisely why arguments about politics are usually discouraged, or at least the combatants are told to, "Take this outside, please." (The latter is in polite establishments; in the less congenial, the "bum's rush" may on occasion be used.)

Why does it get heated to the point that folks tend to lose control over it? It gets that way because it inflames passions, and nothing gets in the way of rational thought like a passionate rage. Note that others know this as well, and use it as a tool. The next time a political ad gets your ire up, ask yourself, "Who is trying to make me lose my rational mind in this?" "Who might benefit."

"United we stand, divided we fall.", and whatnot.

The astute will have noticed by now that my focus on this has always, and remains, that of civility and respect; without those, we fail abjectly.
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