skirtcafe.org

Many on this board are aware of The Atrium (formerly Kristine's Atrium) --- originally a sister site to Tom's Cafe, which is the direct predecessor to SkirtCafe. The Atrium has traditionally been more freestyle-oriented than SkirtCafe. It has unfortunately dwindled in recent years, as Kristine moved on to other things.

Well... it has now changed management and is being re-launched as The All-New Atrium. I encourage anyone with an interest in freestyle fashions to take a look and consider supporting this new effort: http://atrium.earthshod.co.uk

If the New Atrium is a success and ends up hosting good discussion on freestyle fashions, then that brings up an issue regarding change at the Cafe. We might consider removing our freestyle forum to avoid duplication, and concentrating more on non-freestyle kinds of skirted men's fashions. I'm interested in seeking member comments on this idea: should we consider closing Freestyle Fashions in the face of the New Atrium, or should we continue to host it?

Bob wrote:...If the New Atrium is a success ... We might consider removing our freestyle forum to avoid duplication, and concentrating more on non-freestyle kinds of skirted men's fashions.

I'd have to first know what counts as "freestyle" vs. "non-freestyle."

Would the guy who liked skating dresses (remember him?) count as "freestyler -- go to Atrium"?

For that matter, would my own tastes make me unwelcome here?

I've always figured that my own tastes were pretty freestyle-y: I like lace, and sheers, and bright colors, and flirtatious styles, and have experimented a bit with dresses and jumpers, and other things that most of the people here wouldn't be caught dead wearing. On the other hand, I would never wear make-up, or high heels, or nail polish, or pantyhose, nor would I give up my beard.

There is no set definition of what is and is not freestyle. The change would be more operational --- I would close the "Freestyle Fashions" forum with a post directing interested parties to the Atrium. People will ultimately decide for themselves where they feel best participating. In the past, many people have read and posted in both forums, and I would expect that this would probably continue.

Bob wrote:There is no set definition of what is and is not freestyle. The change would be more operational --- I would close the "Freestyle Fashions" forum with a post directing interested parties to the Atrium.

I'd like to echo AMM's concern here; without a proper definition of "freestyle" (or even a best-guess one) we'll just be moving the issue around. If the old "Freestyle" page points off to The (All-New) Atrium, then folks who aren't comfortable there (raises hand) will shift to posting in "Skirts and Kilts for Men" or will bail altogether. The change will also require proper documentation in the mission statement to specify the new bent of SkirtCafe; if we're to abandon our "big tent" position, then it needs to be stated.

People will ultimately decide for themselves where they feel best participating. In the past, many people have read and posted in both forums, and I would expect that this would probably continue.

From a personal perspective, I never felt "comfortable" at the Atrium; I'm vastly more interested in getting skirted rigs accepted on men than I am in any of the Trans-* notions. This is not to say that those notions lack validity; this is to say that I am not particularly comfortable with them, and conflating the notions of getting skirted garments accepted on men with "gender confusion" (If I come up with a better way of putting that, I'll edit it.) will likely push a larger percentage of the male population away from the notion that skirts and kilts can -- and do -- work for men, and make sense in many settings.

OK, sounds like we should probably just leave well enough alone. Our Freestyle Fashions segment worked fine in the "old days" of an active Atrium. I think I'll post a link to the Atrium, and let people decide where they want to post.

Bob:
2nd the motion.
Think it would be a good idea to wait and see how things develop.
Maybe after a while the character of the new forum will determine
if there is a need to merge; delete or diversify certain sections either
within this forum or the All-New Atrium.
I am for the record a member of the Atrium; All-New Atrium and of
course this forum as well as a few others. At this point I feel that
there is certainly enough room for the two forums. "Something for
everyone" (but not) "a comedy tonight".
r.m.anderson

Bob,

I have browsed the Atrium but I don't think I've ever posted there; somehow I never felt "at home" in that environment, even though I can't quite put a finger on why.

I think the Freestyle board here provides a useful overlap and although there will be some duplication I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing (after all we regularly repeat discussions on various topics within in single forums here). I also feel that an area where folks who are at home here are able to discuss more freestyle (whatever that means to them) issues where they "know" the other board members and feel a part of the community is of value.

Any decision made now is not set in stone and can be reviewed in the light of experience at any time.

In the light of the above I would tended to support your suggestion to leave well alone for now. Of course, my signature is totally applicable to this post...

Have fun and once again thanks for hosting this fine forum.


Ian.

I second Ian's comments. The Atrium doesn't look like the place for me, either. At the same time, I'm concerned that a concurrent narrowing in the Cafe's spectrum would leave me "homeless" so to speak.

sasq

I, too, would 'look in' at the Atrium on occasion. It provided a 'balance' to the Cafe, in much the same way the 'Kilt-only' forums did. Extremes of clothing views apart, "The Atrium" was interesting in other ways, an insight into US politics (for a Brit!) for one! And even religious issues didn't stir the kind of wrath that the (IMHO) over-broad approach that the 'widening of scope' has clearly done here. I agree with those that suggest it's maybe too early to arbitrarily 'shut down' any topics here, though. Longer term, if this forum is to recover disaffected members, and 'recruit' new ones, then that policy can, and must, be reviewed.

Wanted to add agreement to the currently decided issue of retaining a freestyle area here. From what I see at the atrium, and this is based on a quick view and without the assistance of some sort of purpose blurb greeting me there, the atrium is not concerned with who you are but only what you wear. The "why you wear it" is not limited to men wanting to be taken as men which is a big difference from the cafe's frestyle section. As for me I'll happily support anybody wearing anything for whatever reason but I also can understand the position of people who want to be in the cafe's smaller and more homogeneous environment.

I started my journey into skirts around 1998 and spent a lot of time wondering who and what I was. I frequented both Tom's Cafe and the Atrium when they were both kilt sites. I remember the flame wars between the kilter's and the skirter's. I was also around when the term "freestyle" was coined. I had a hand in it's creation and spread I am not the orignator, I think it came from a Dutch member of the High Heel forum -hhplace.org

So I found out who and what I am thanks to The Atrium, Tom's and a few other kilter's site's. I figured out I'm not a trannie, not a crossdresser (hate that term) I am just a man in a skirt. My choice of "dress" does not fit what "the atrium" morphed into. I do not have the excess testosterone that saturates some of the kiltie fourms. I enjoy wearing skirts, I love the comfort, the look, how they move, wether they are knee length pleated or not. Have you notice how you can take one of your old jackets and give it new life with a nice long skirt? I also discovered that mens jackets go very nicely with mid calf to ankle length skirt.

As Tom's and now skirtcafe moved to become more inclusive I feel more at home here. So I vote to keep the freestyle fashion fourm. The FreeStyle here is not the the same as FreeStyle on hhplace.org, it will not be the same as "the New Atrium" and FreeStyle on a kilties board will mean some thing enterly different.

Anyone of them is not better than another they are all different and serve different communities.

-- Brandy

Very well said, Brandy. Down to the last word. Especially the part on fact that all those different forums related to kilting/skirting are simply different.

Mipi

Personally i would like to keep the freestyle forum on the site if only to keep a good variety of forums (fora?) here. Jack.

Speaking of the Atrium, I notice that the last post is from over 2 weeks ago.

Is it still alive?

While it was never my favorite m-i-s site, I would hate to see it die.

I noticed that also. I think it coincided with the re-appearance of Mary Jane Boy and several of his friends, notably a friend named T-Strapped that was "into" several things including B&D. I don't think anyone really wanted to respond to that. I know I didn't...That's about as to me as the moon.