The problem with men

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rivegauche
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The problem with men

Post by rivegauche »

The current row about people with male anatomy in women's toilets is something of a red herring. If a woman is afraid of a person solely on the basis of gender, is this not the same as being afraid of someone just because of their colour. Some countries used to have separate toilets for white and 'coloured' people, and doubtless when this was abolished many whites were afraid of others in the toilets because they were a different colour. Making the toilets mixed race did not create a problem any more than making toilets mixed gender would. However there are still people who attack others of a different colour.

If a male at birth attacks a woman anywhere, a crime has been committed. The problem is that hardly any of the men who attack women are prosecuted, and even fewer of these are found guilty and sent to prison. Result - men still attack women - because they will almost always get away with it - and because they can. We the laws set up to protect women to be properly enforced, starting with offenders in the Police, where some of the problem resides.

The reality is that even in western countries where women have the vote and protected rights in the workplace, large numbers of men treat women with contempt. Look at the number of followers Andrew Tait had. The alarming thing is the way that young men seem to be even worse than their predecessors. They treat women as being there mainly for their enjoyment.

We need to do something drastic to get young men to treat women with more respect. Women are seen as lesser creatures. So wearing their clothes denotes a huge loss of status (for them). Perhaps if young men had to spend at least a month a year in short skirts or dresses they might start to think differently. First of all, a male sub-culture would develop around these clothes, which would evolve and gradually lose its negativity. Secondly, men would experience the vulnerability of short skirts and the sexualisation of their bodies (with possible positive experiences as well as negative ones). They would, in short, get a taste of their own medicine. It probably wouldn't solve the problem but it might make it less serious. How would the skirt-wearing be achieved? We need to enlist the help of mothers to ensure their sons treat their daughters with respect. One for Mumsnet?
new2skirts
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Re: The problem with men

Post by new2skirts »

The issue is, if you call a woman out for wearing a short skirt because it makes them feel good / sexy / more easy to move about in etc., we are the bad ones. Getting young men to dress the same may not solve the situation, as regardless of clothes men have had these views, from Vikings etc who would rape and pillage, to lads mag culture where girls are in next to nothing, but are all over the cover.

It is only some men, not all :wink:
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rivegauche
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Re: The problem with men

Post by rivegauche »

I never said it was all men. The aim of getting young men to wear these clothes is so that they associate them with women, and that this does not mean inferior. A man wearing a skirt nowadays is not the same culturally as a Roman or Viking wearing one - a modern young man will initially at least associate it with femininity and feel vulnerable. That the sight of a short skirt and legs in tights does not automatically mean it is predation time. Male legs can look good - so if these are seen more frequently, young men might see beyond the obvious though I suspect we will never persuade young men to stop looking at breasts. The problem with many (not all) young men is a danger to society and has to be addressed. They are not being helped by the attitudes of their parents and part of the problem is that mothers are actively raising macho sons with no respect for women. So the skirts would be an attempt to de-macho the situation. Obvious issue would be that the young men who are the biggest problem would be likely to refuse point blank. So it is not THE solution but it might help a bit.
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crfriend
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Re: The problem with men

Post by crfriend »

rivegauche wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:33 pmThe problem with many (not all) young men is a danger to society and has to be addressed.
Your numbers are flat wrong. The number of "problem individuals" is not "most", not "many", and fewer than "some" -- it's a minuscule number. Please stop tarring and feathering everyone with a Y chromosome as part of their genetic makeup; the overwhelming percentage of decent, honest, and respectable men is enormous when compared to the trouble. Spewing hate speech and the rhetoric of the radical feminists is not helpful in this regard.
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rivegauche
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Re: The problem with men

Post by rivegauche »

crfriend wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:06 pm
rivegauche wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:33 pmThe problem with many (not all) young men is a danger to society and has to be addressed.
Your numbers are flat wrong. The number of "problem individuals" is not "most", not "many", and fewer than "some" -- it's a minuscule number. Please stop tarring and feathering everyone with a Y chromosome as part of their genetic makeup; the overwhelming percentage of decent, honest, and respectable men is enormous when compared to the trouble. Spewing hate speech and the rhetoric of the radical feminists is not helpful in this regard.
I never said most. You are over-reacting. The numbers involved are far from trivial. Pointing this out is not hate speech - don't be ridiculous.

Between 2016 and 2021 150 officers in the Metropolitan Police were charged with Murder, Sexual assault/Rape, Assault ABH, or GBH. Sir Mark Rowley said that 2-3 officers from the Metropolitan Police would be charged very week. He said cases included "violence against women and girls offences", such as domestic abuse and sex offences. That is just one UK force, and that is just the cases reaching court. And they are supposed to be protecting society. According to the Guardian, 127,000 members now pay £39 a month to join the Hustler’s University community run by Andrew Tait and his Tik-Tok videos had been viewed 11.6 billion (yes Billion) times. If you think these figures do not represent a problem for society then you are part of the problem.
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Re: The problem with men

Post by Brad »

The problem is that hardly any of the men who attack women are prosecuted, and even fewer of these are found guilty and sent to prison.
One reason for this is often women fail to press charges. Although pressing charges is a personal choice and one not to be taken lightly, don't then blame the system for not working.
Barleymower
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Re: The problem with men

Post by Barleymower »

rivegauche wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:53 pm
crfriend wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:06 pm
rivegauche wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:33 pmThe problem with many (not all) young men is a danger to society and has to be addressed.
Your numbers are flat wrong. The number of "problem individuals" is not "most", not "many", and fewer than "some" -- it's a minuscule number. Please stop tarring and feathering everyone with a Y chromosome as part of their genetic makeup; the overwhelming percentage of decent, honest, and respectable men is enormous when compared to the trouble. Spewing hate speech and the rhetoric of the radical feminists is not helpful in this regard.
I never said most. You are over-reacting. The numbers involved are far from trivial. Pointing this out is not hate speech - don't be ridiculous.

Between 2016 and 2021 150 officers in the Metropolitan Police were charged with Murder, Sexual assault/Rape, Assault ABH, or GBH. Sir Mark Rowley said that 2-3 officers from the Metropolitan Police would be charged very week. He said cases included "violence against women and girls offences", such as domestic abuse and sex offences. That is just one UK force, and that is just the cases reaching court. And they are supposed to be protecting society. According to the Guardian, 127,000 members now pay £39 a month to join the Hustler’s University community run by Andrew Tait and his Tik-Tok videos had been viewed 11.6 billion (yes Billion) times. If you think these figures do not represent a problem for society then you are part of the problem.
The answer is simple and staring us in the face. Bring the sexes closer together. For me that is what MIS is about. Rather than forcing men to wear a mini skirt, like some kind of punishment, why not encourage a little more softness in men? In the same way women have been encouraged to be more masculine.
rivegauche
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Re: The problem with men

Post by rivegauche »

Brad wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:44 pm
The problem is that hardly any of the men who attack women are prosecuted, and even fewer of these are found guilty and sent to prison.
One reason for this is often women fail to press charges. Although pressing charges is a personal choice and one not to be taken lightly, don't then blame the system for not working.
It seems that this thread is destined for misinterpretation. I didn't blame the system. I blamed men. We have had recent news reports where women DID want to press charges and the Police would not take them seriously. If the CPS or the Crown Office in Scotland reckon there is enough evidence to take it to court, why are so few convictions obtained. I find it astonishing that men can be so unconcerned that women are routinely harmed by men and the system does not help them. What if the victim was your daughter? Would it be trivial then?
tbryant2k12
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Re: The problem with men

Post by tbryant2k12 »

If someone is bent on assaulting a woman, they are going to do it. Gendered restrooms or not, it's not going to stop a person.

Gendered restrooms were NEVER about woman's safety, they were all about men specifically from not have to share a restroom with a woman. Women were never to leave the house and be in public. So that's why there were never woman's restrooms in many old public buildings originally.

All of these protect the children or woman's protection claims is a farce!! It's all about preserving a 1950's conservative way of life.
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SkirtsDad
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Re: The problem with men

Post by SkirtsDad »

crfriend wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:06 pm
rivegauche wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:33 pmThe problem with many (not all) young men is a danger to society and has to be addressed.
Your numbers are flat wrong. The number of "problem individuals" is not "most", not "many", and fewer than "some" -- it's a minuscule number. Please stop tarring and feathering everyone with a Y chromosome as part of their genetic makeup; the overwhelming percentage of decent, honest, and respectable men is enormous when compared to the trouble. Spewing hate speech and the rhetoric of the radical feminists is not helpful in this regard.
You can argue about the significance of the numbers, but at the end of the day is it not TOO many? I know of at least 25 women that have been raped, one that was left for dead and was months in hospital, (and 3 men, just to strike a balance). Perhaps men don't talk to women enough to understand how enormous the issue is. Two women I know have also told me about having their ribs broken by partners. I know a lot of women, so that's not a problem then as it's 'fewer than "some"'?
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crfriend
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Re: The problem with men

Post by crfriend »

I''m not saying that it isn't a problem -- any time we have violence involved there's a problem,

But, what are we to do? Lock everybody with a Y chromosome up in prison? That's hardly practical, but would be a fantasy for a few types.

There are a raft of societal problems that need to be addressed here in order to solve anything in a meaningful sense, and nobody seems to be hitting the proper notes. The violence issue -- and it happens both ways -- is going to be a very tough nut to crack.
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Barleymower
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Re: The problem with men

Post by Barleymower »

The problem with men is they are being ignored.
rivegauche
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Re: The problem with men

Post by rivegauche »

Wow. I started this thread with a light-hearted solution to a major social problem. It has been hijacked by misogyny. Yes, I think every man who is GUILTY of assaulting women should be locked up. Such people are vile. To suggest that the problem of violence by women against men occurs on an equivalent scale is farcical. I am becoming deeply uncomfortable with the attempts to make out that this is a non-issue, and in general with some of the anti-women diatribes on this site. My message is not anti-men. Just anti-criminal men. Men who assault women are criminals and bullies and deserve the full penalties that society has decided are appropriate - the problem is that the misogynists are obstructing the justice process, and some of them are in the Police - and my source is the head of the Metropolitan Police - is that not good enough for you? Quite apart from the crime there is the moronic sexist comment that women get from men who hang around on street corners. The way that some men treat women is a disgrace and I am horrified that so many people on this site seem to think it's a non-issue. Ask your wives, your sisters and your daughters if they think it is a non-issue.
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Re: The problem with men

Post by Uncle Al »

This train has become de-railed :!:
Moved to OFF TOPIC section and unlocked the thread.

What one person thought was a light-hearted post turned into a
cataclysm of responses. We don't need any verbal wars at Skirt Cafe'.

DON'T LET THIS GET OUT OF HAND

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