Courage comes from within

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Uncle Al
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Courage comes from within

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Re: Courage comes from within

Post by Ray »

True! Another useful nugget, Al.

Even if we can manage (not remove) our self-doubt, that’s a good start.
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Re: Courage comes from within

Post by ScotL »

Ray wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:58 am
True! Another useful nugget, Al.

Even if we can manage (not remove) our self-doubt, that’s a good start.
Good point. Does managing self doubt allow one to wear openly but there’s always that little nugget of “what if” whereas removal of self doubt is wear you forget you wore one?
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Re: Courage comes from within

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ScotL wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:47 pm
Does managing self doubt allow one to wear openly but there’s always that little nugget of “what if” whereas removal of self doubt is wear you forget you wore one?
Contemplate, for just a moment, the difference between "What if?" and "What's likely?" The difference is at once both subtle and profound -- and it's the gateway to managing risk in the real world.

All too often we allow that nagging question of "What if?" to control us, and in controlling us it completely and absolutely stops progress. "What of I fall?" on the second step of a 1,000 mile journey? Does that mean that we abort after the fist one? Instead, reframe the sentiment as, "Am I likely to stumble, and if I do stumble, how likely am I to fall?". With it framed in that manner, the journey becomes a possibility rather than a far-off dream.

Do not succumb to Analysis Paralysis. That's the coward's road. Choose the road less travelled.
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Re: Courage comes from within

Post by ScotL »

crfriend wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:13 pm
ScotL wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:47 pm
Does managing self doubt allow one to wear openly but there’s always that little nugget of “what if” whereas removal of self doubt is wear you forget you wore one?
Contemplate, for just a moment, the difference between "What if?" and "What's likely?" The difference is at once both subtle and profound -- and it's the gateway to managing risk in the real world.

All too often we allow that nagging question of "What if?" to control us, and in controlling us it completely and absolutely stops progress. "What of I fall?" on the second step of a 1,000 mile journey? Does that mean that we abort after the fist one? Instead, reframe the sentiment as, "Am I likely to stumble, and if I do stumble, how likely am I to fall?". With it framed in that manner, the journey becomes a possibility rather than a far-off dream.

Do not succumb to Analysis Paralysis. That's the coward's road. Choose the road less travelled.
I believe calling someone a coward because they back out of wearing a skirt as a man isn’t helpful. I suspect many men “chickened out” the first few times they thought about wearing one. I bet many wore it around the house alone swearing they’d step out only to “chicken out”. Eventually they do and start to realize that the sky doesn’t fall. But the “what ifs” return. And it’s hard to keep the courage up and the “chickening out” continues. But at their pace they become more comfortable and progress at their pace.

You’ve said you didn’t have any of these things happen to you and you just went out and wore openly. And I think that’s awesome. But many can’t.

But we all need to be supported. To hear the stories of wearing openly. The good and the bad.

Name calling is just something I don’t think is helpful. Especially calling out someone’s courage when anyone who wears a skirt as a man has a lot of courage.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Courage comes from within

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ScotL wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:55 pm
I believe calling someone a coward because they back out of wearing a skirt as a man isn’t helpful. I suspect many men “chickened out” the first few times they thought about wearing one.
There's an important lesson that needs to be learnt here, and that's that I was most certainly not calling you a coward, I was calling out cowardice as one of the major reasons why progress is so slow at a societal level. When we get trapped in "AP", we default to "staying the course" without thinking whether that course might put us onto the rocks or not. Just as navigators need to use multiple tools and sources of information, so it is also vital that each and every one of us do the same in charting our own course. Sometimes this means accepting -- and taking on -- risk as part of the deal. That's just part of life in the adult world.
You’ve said you didn’t have any of these things happen to you and you just went out and wore openly. And I think that’s awesome. But many can’t.
Yes, I had some concerns, but I did a reasoned risk-analysis on the matter and came to the conclusion that at the end of the day everything would be fine. And, lo and behold, it was fine at the end of the day. Were my nerves a bit raw the first few times out? I'd be lying if I said, "No." However, the rewards in this case outweighed the perceived risk and so I went for it. If you are really living in a situation where the risk is so high that it might involve physical injury then I'd contemplate moving.

The first time showing up at my job so attired was definitely a "Damn the torpedoes!" moment, but it was also when I got called in on my own time -- off the clock -- to fix a problem that I was uniquely suited to fix, and it went well if for no other reason than simple force.
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Re: Courage comes from within

Post by ScotL »

crfriend wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:15 pm
ScotL wrote:
Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:55 pm
I believe calling someone a coward because they back out of wearing a skirt as a man isn’t helpful. I suspect many men “chickened out” the first few times they thought about wearing one.
There's an important lesson that needs to be learnt here, and that's that I was most certainly not calling you a coward, I was calling out cowardice as one of the major reasons why progress is so slow at a societal level.
With all due respect, I never thought you called me a coward and my review of my post didn’t seem to suggest this.

But I am against calling out people as cowards when they are doing something like MIS. Maybe that’s just me. I am a teacher. I believe in working with people and not using negative terms in attempts to change behavior.
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Re: Courage comes from within

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ScotL wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:35 am
But I am against calling out people as cowards when they are doing something like MIS. Maybe that’s just me. I am a teacher. I believe in working with people and not using negative terms in attempts to change behavior.
I have no problem in calling out cowardice as one of the scourges of the modern population, and it's rampant. Where has the spirit of "To boldly go" gone?

It's largely missing for any number of reasons, AP being one of them and one that is especially corrosive to bravery in the face of adversity. But so too are apathy, hopelessness, and a fatalistic resignation to the status quo.

It takes courage to stand up for one's self. It also takes plain chutzpah. I liked the shot that Stevie posted from the 1960s. Yes, that does look like a skirt on that guy, but it might be a kilt (although the legwear and shoes say otherwise) -- and it looks in keeping with the times. But then again, those were hopeful times when we thought we had a future to look forward to, not the morass we see in front of us now. I get it; I understand the apathy; and I can sympathise with it. Why should I worry about wearing a skirt when I'm more worried about where my next meal is coming from or if 'll still have a job and a roof over my head come the morrow.

Skirt-wearing for guys is way up the pile of Maslow's hierarchy of Needs -- especially since we've had some really key fundamentals taken away in the past 40 years. So I get it; what looks like cowardice is, in fact, worry about other things that completely trump the frivolities of life. But it doesn't mean that we should not try. To acquiesce to the oppressors is to hand them their victory on a silver platter. They're entirely likely to win in the end, but we owe it to ourselves to at least make them fight for it.
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Re: Courage comes from within

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crfriend wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:09 pm
ScotL wrote:
Mon Nov 14, 2022 3:35 am
But I am against calling out people as cowards when they are doing something like MIS. Maybe that’s just me. I am a teacher. I believe in working with people and not using negative terms in attempts to change behavior.
I have no problem in calling out cowardice as one of the scourges of the modern population, and it's rampant. Where has the spirit of "To boldly go" gone?

It's largely missing for any number of reasons, AP being one of them and one that is especially corrosive to bravery in the face of adversity. But so too are apathy, hopelessness, and a fatalistic resignation to the status quo.

It takes courage to stand up for one's self. It also takes plain chutzpah. I liked the shot that Stevie posted from the 1960s. Yes, that does look like a skirt on that guy, but it might be a kilt (although the legwear and shoes say otherwise) -- and it looks in keeping with the times. But then again, those were hopeful times when we thought we had a future to look forward to, not the morass we see in front of us now. I get it; I understand the apathy; and I can sympathise with it. Why should I worry about wearing a skirt when I'm more worried about where my next meal is coming from or if 'll still have a job and a roof over my head come the morrow.

Skirt-wearing for guys is way up the pile of Maslow's hierarchy of Needs -- especially since we've had some really key fundamentals taken away in the past 40 years. So I get it; what looks like cowardice is, in fact, worry about other things that completely trump the frivolities of life. But it doesn't mean that we should not try. To acquiesce to the oppressors is to hand them their victory on a silver platter. They're entirely likely to win in the end, but we owe it to ourselves to at least make them fight for it.
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Re: Courage comes from within

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ScotL wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 am
You attract more bees with honey than vinegar
And sometimes attracting bees isn't what the intent is.
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Re: Courage comes from within

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crfriend wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:23 am
ScotL wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:14 am
You attract more bees with honey than vinegar
And sometimes attracting bees isn't what the intent is.
“Attracting bees” is getting men to try a skirt. What’s the other intent? Sorry, not following
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Re: Courage comes from within

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ScotL wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:37 am
“Attracting bees” is getting men to try a skirt. What’s the other intent? Sorry, not following
It's also exhorting men to use some of the internal courage that they have to actually dare to do something for once instead of cowering in the corner. Holding back because, "They're gonna make fun of me." does not cut it. And the answer is that if "they" laugh, you laugh right back at them. "You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you're all the same!"
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Re: Courage comes from within

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crfriend wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:47 pm
ScotL wrote:
Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:37 am
“Attracting bees” is getting men to try a skirt. What’s the other intent? Sorry, not following
It's also exhorting men to use some of the internal courage that they have to actually dare to do something for once instead of cowering in the corner. Holding back because, "They're gonna make fun of me." does not cut it. And the answer is that if "they" laugh, you laugh right back at them. "You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you're all the same!"
To which I’m on the “you attract more bees with honey” approach and you think otherwise. Neither of us are right and neither of us are wrong but I do worry that the opposite of “attracting bees with honey” is akin to “the beatings continue until morale improves”.

I think there is a way to get men to become courageous in the face of presumed possible mocking without calling them out. But again, we have opposite thoughts on the matter neither right nor wrong.
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Re: Courage comes from within

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Courage certainly comes from within and people need varying degrees of it to overcome the prejudices and bigotry we find in our society as men wanting to wear skirts and any clothing categorised as feminine. Everyone has a different context. At 58 I’ve figured out that my largely suppressed compulsion to dress as I want is illogical. I should just get on with it. I’ve ventured out and loved it, it felt incredibly liberating and relaxing too. I felt at ease. But I don’t have the courage to fight through my wife’s prejudices and lack of understanding. Whilst she knows how I like to dress she does not encourage it and if she knew that I went out she would be horrified. My internal risk assessment prevents me from losing my marriage over tights and skirts. Not sure if that makes me a coward or just sad. I do know it frustrates me.
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Re: Courage comes from within

Post by Barleymower »

BFTights wrote:
Fri Nov 18, 2022 10:46 pm
Courage certainly comes from within and people need varying degrees of it to overcome the prejudices and bigotry we find in our society as men wanting to wear skirts and any clothing categorised as feminine. Everyone has a different context. At 58 I’ve figured out that my largely suppressed compulsion to dress as I want is illogical. I should just get on with it. I’ve ventured out and loved it, it felt incredibly liberating and relaxing too. I felt at ease. But I don’t have the courage to fight through my wife’s prejudices and lack of understanding. Whilst she knows how I like to dress she does not encourage it and if she knew that I went out she would be horrified. My internal risk assessment prevents me from losing my marriage over tights and skirts. Not sure if that makes me a coward or just sad. I do know it frustrates me.
We all feel the same you are not alone. The problem is no men are doing it for the same fears and prejudice you describe.
Unless you, me and everyone man get out there in a skirt it will never be accepted. Always be deviant, always be unmanly, always assumed that you have a bra and panties too, always be gay. No woman wants to be associated with such a man, it's embarrassing.
You have to explain to her it's just a skirt and get out there.
One thing you can't do is dress it up as just a skirt when it's also something more. You won't get away with it you'll get sussed and people will comment.

If that's the case either go with it and be you or tuck it away and hope you can cope.
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