Eddie Lizard

[Uncle Al]

Crossdressing has a negative connotation that is associated with shame in doing something one
ought not to do. We need a better term.

One of the retorts that I have saved up in case of need is "I'm not cross-dressing, I'm free-dressing".
Along with enquiries about women in trousesrs.

"Free-Dressing" - I like that 'term'


Uncle Al

[ScotL]

Crossdressing has a negative connotation that is associated with shame in doing something one ought not to do.

We need a better term. We don’t have one already because this is a topic that’s not generally discussed rationally. Men wearing women’s clothing is always discussed as drag or negatively.

One of the retorts that I have saved up in case of need is "I'm not cross-dressing, I'm free-dressing". Along with enquiries about women in trousesrs.

I like the direction of this wording. Dressing freedom is what we’re after. Wonder if it needs the word male added to it. As in male free Dressing. After writing it, I think not since that could imply dressing without males; male free…

My only reservation to it is the fact it doesn’t immediately convey the idea. As cross dressing does. Or maybe cross dressing is just well defined from years of use. But free dressing could be used in a larger context. Defined as the freedom to dress however without thought to traditional gender norms. Could encompass most of the unisex clothing idea but remove the idea that inanimate clothing has a gender.

[crfriend]

I suspect that the real reason many of us object to the use of the term "cross-dressing" is that it's used as a pejorative -- and one that is never applied in the "other direction" (although modern women have come to greatly resemble men in the way they dress and care for themselves). If the term wasn't intended as an insult, then we'd likely not care. It's like "toxic masculinity", which is hate speech pure and simple; "cross-dressing" needs to achieve the same status. It's an obsolete concept that's used as a cudgel against only one sex.

[ScotL]

I suspect that the real reason many of us object to the use of the term "cross-dressing" is that it's used as a pejorative -- and one that is never applied in the "other direction" (although modern women have come to greatly resemble men in the way they dress and care for themselves). If the term wasn't intended as an insult, then we'd likely not care. It's like "toxic masculinity", which is hate speech pure and simple; "cross-dressing" needs to achieve the same status. It's an obsolete concept that's used as a cudgel against only one sex.

It’s unfair that the word cross dressing has a negative connotation targeted towards men but that’s life. And life ain’t fair. We can complain all we want about that or we can move forward.

Free Dressing could take off but I feel it needs a small tweak to really make it catchy. Not sure what that is but it’s like that know-it-when-you-hear-it kind of thing.

Getting a new term used will be harder. I guess Wikipedia pages could help and in all discussions with media.

But I still feel it’s lacking just one minor tweak

[Jim]

Free Dressing could take off but I feel it needs a small tweak to really make it catchy. Not sure what that is but it’s like that know-it-when-you-hear-it kind of thing.

How about Gender Free Dressing which is often just shortened to Free Dressing?

[Ralph]

Yeah, need a better term. I do think this cafe is different because you’re right, non-binary and gender-fluid do involve more that just wanting to skirt

I experimented with "genderfluid" and "nonbinary" for a while but they do seem to be more centred on people who want to shed the whole masculine (or feminine) expression. The past few years I've felt that "gender non-conforming" is a good fit, but your mileage may vary. In my case it's more than just the clothes. I absolutely identify and express myself 100% as male... but I colour outside the lines quite a bit. I'm more emotionally sensitive, creative, and nurturing than my brothers in the XY-chromosome fraternity; I'm weaker and more intellectual (I absolutely do not mean smarter!) than the athletes and truck drivers and the like.

In my youth if I let those traits show in public they called me a sissy or nance, but the former now has a more sexualised, fetish connotation and the latter has fallen out of the lexicon entirely. But "gender non-conforming" - that makes sense. I'm a man, but one who doesn't obey all the stupid and arbitrary rules telling us that men must behave this way and women that way. In the ideal future where gender roles are less rigidly defined and one can be "a man who wears dresses and cries at romantic comedies" or "a woman who strangles elk with her bare hands", but for now we do what we can with the tools available to us.

I suspect that the real reason many of us object to the use of the term "cross-dressing" is that it's used as a pejorative

Among other reasons, yes. Like "sissy", it also tends to carry sexual connotations and is almost always used, at least nowadays, in the context of transgender or transsexual identity. I still follow some crossdressing forums on social media and dedicated websites, but they simply do not cater to our kind. It's all about knicker fetishes, makeup, choosing a "femme" name, false breast sizing, and how to pass for female.

[ScotL]

“crossdressing forums on social media and dedicated websites, but they simply do not cater to our kind. It's all about knicker fetishes, makeup, choosing a "femme" name, false breast sizing, and how to pass for female.”

And this gets at the argument for why a better term for men who just want to wear skirts (or other traditionally female clothing). At least ti me, I don’t get off wearing them, I don’t want to appear as a woman and I’m feeling like I am male. I’m not exploring my sexual or gender identity. I put one on and thought why does the one gender with anatomy that should preclude extra material between the legs, not wear these? And “the breeze” to quote Mr Pitt.

NB: edited to see if I could only quote a few lines but it seems I made some mistakes

[ScotL]

Free Dressing could take off but I feel it needs a small tweak to really make it catchy. Not sure what that is but it’s like that know-it-when-you-hear-it kind of thing.

How about Gender Free Dressing which is often just shortened to Free Dressing?

That could do it. Variations?

Non-gendered dressing
unisex dressing
Gender Limited and Non Gender Limited
Ungendered dressing. Vs Gendered dressing
Salad dressing (not necessarily a joke but if you think of salads like the body, you basically put on whatever you want and it works for you”

[crfriend]

Non-gendered dressing
unisex dressing
Gender Limited and Non Gender Limited
Ungendered dressing. Vs Gendered dressing
Salad dressing (not necessarily a joke but if you think of salads like the body, you basically put on whatever you want and it works for you”

If the term "gender" is involved it'll scare most men away. Full stop. We need to conquer that problem. "Unisex" has already been taken and is code for "butching up the women" (because it never went the other way -- ever).

How about just "getting dressed in the morning"? "Stylish dressing"? "Dressing expressively"?

[STEVIE]

For me,
"clothing", will do very nicely thank you.
Quite frankly, I don't care what the damn label says, I know what I like and that's enough.
What anyone else wishes to call it is not my concern in the slightest.
Steve.

[ScotL]

Non-gendered dressing
unisex dressing
Gender Limited and Non Gender Limited
Ungendered dressing. Vs Gendered dressing
Salad dressing (not necessarily a joke but if you think of salads like the body, you basically put on whatever you want and it works for you”

If the term "gender" is involved it'll scare most men away. Full stop. We need to conquer that problem. "Unisex" has already been taken and is code for "butching up the women" (because it never went the other way -- ever).

How about just "getting dressed in the morning"? "Stylish dressing"? "Dressing expressively"?

You’re right about the word gender. Evokes too many emotions.

I guess I don’t think of unisex as butching up women but oh well

The problem I have with your three suggestions in order:

getting dressed in the morning; this is what we want to be able to say and many on this forum do, but most of the world would take that to mean just getting dressed and assuming they donned clothing traditionally associated with their gender.

Stylish dressing; subjective. Every man who dons a skirt cant necessarily stylish to all. Tastes are different.

Dressing expressively; could mean anything. Flamboyant. Drab if sad or moody.

But I don’t think these convey the context of a man maintaining his masculinity while wearing a skirt

Thoughts?

[Barleymower]

Im working to maintain my masculinity in the clothes I wear. I only wear skirts but they are what is perceived as womens skirts. Well so what? Now they are mens too.
I don't see Eddie Izzard as a man in a skirt. He's a woman now. That's how he identifies so that's what he is. My daughter has drummed that into me.

[crfriend]

You’re right about the word gender. Evokes too many emotions.

Hence the need to de-gender clothing.

I guess I don’t think of unisex as butching up women but oh well

You may not have the time-frame that I do to observe the thing.

getting dressed in the morning; this is what we want to be able to say and many on this forum do, but most of the world would take that to mean just getting dressed and assuming they donned clothing traditionally associated with their gender.

See point one on de-gendering clothing.

Stylish dressing; subjective. Every man who dons a skirt cant necessarily stylish to all. Tastes are different.

Indeed, and this this entirely healthy. What I happen to like you may happen to detest. Again, this is healthy.

Dressing expressively; could mean anything. Flamboyant. Drab if sad or moody.

Try it sometime when you're confined to "male drab". It doesn't work.

But I don’t think these convey the context of a man maintaining his masculinity while wearing a skirt

See point one.

[ScotL]

I completely agree with the need to de-gender clothing. But none of those phrases work today to further that cause.

[hillaryskirt]

Yes. I say informally to friends etc, I'm having a fashion day. They know what I mean.