Feds ruling on skirts
- Fred in Skirts
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Feds ruling on skirts
Federal ruling on skirts could put some of our best schools — charters — at grave risk
https://nypost.com/2022/06/19/federal-r ... s-at-risk/
https://nypost.com/2022/06/19/federal-r ... s-at-risk/
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- r.m.anderson
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
I did not read anything about male students wearing skirts - no options ?
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
This one's an interesting one - and dare I say relevant to some degree. I went to private school (grade school and high school), but not a charter school. In high school the girls could wear pants during the winter, but they might have had to wear skirts over the pants. In general - I was envious and bitter throughout my education. Now with that said...
1) The school's stated reasons for requiring skirts is a bit outdated (even for a conservative-leaning person like myself):
2) If I'm reading the case correctly, charter schools would have to remove gender restrictions from their uniforms to keep receiving federal fundings - let anyone wear whatever is on the uniform list - and see what happens. Knowing how people work, 99.9% of boys would remain in pants, the girls would immediately start wearing pants, and you'd only see a few in skirts. I mean, it's already self-selecting, right? It's not like thousands of guys are going to start wearing skirts to school. What are the schools afraid of? Girls wearing pants? The horror!!!
3) It's possible this will eliminate all dress codes from these schools - it's harder for me to reflect on that. I hated dress clothes at my schools, and they were a pointless distraction... I also question whether they actually help education or not (I suppose we could discuss the merits of having uniformity amongst students) - for me at least it wouldn't have had much of an effect, except I would have resented going to school less.
*google for full quote
1) The school's stated reasons for requiring skirts is a bit outdated (even for a conservative-leaning person like myself):
It would be nice to find the full quote, in context, but this comes off as tone-deaf and ironic. It's a bunch of BS for people who hearken back to a time when.. "In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women and..."* - you get the picture. YES, being chivalrous is good - but it has to come from the heart, best intentions for others, and not be because "them women are fragile creatures".The school implemented a dress code that its founder, businessman Baker Mitchell, in an email and testimony said would “preserve chivalry” and ensure girls are treated “courteously and more gently than boys.”
2) If I'm reading the case correctly, charter schools would have to remove gender restrictions from their uniforms to keep receiving federal fundings - let anyone wear whatever is on the uniform list - and see what happens. Knowing how people work, 99.9% of boys would remain in pants, the girls would immediately start wearing pants, and you'd only see a few in skirts. I mean, it's already self-selecting, right? It's not like thousands of guys are going to start wearing skirts to school. What are the schools afraid of? Girls wearing pants? The horror!!!
3) It's possible this will eliminate all dress codes from these schools - it's harder for me to reflect on that. I hated dress clothes at my schools, and they were a pointless distraction... I also question whether they actually help education or not (I suppose we could discuss the merits of having uniformity amongst students) - for me at least it wouldn't have had much of an effect, except I would have resented going to school less.
*google for full quote
- moonshadow
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
Grave risk of what??Fred in Skirts wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:14 pm Federal ruling on skirts could put some of our best schools — charters — at grave risk
I'm sorry... a bunch of grown adults fretting over a girl wearing pants...
This. Article. Is. Stupid.
-Andrea
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- crfriend
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
Bloody reactionaries.
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- moonshadow
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
No seriously, my question was not rhetorical... I poured over that article at least four times and I have yet to determine exactly what the "grave risk" is...!
It seems like to me all it is is a cookie cutter, pointless RANT about Biden, Democrats in general, and public schools...
Look, there's plenty of other low hanging fruit for Republicans to grasp when it comes to the current Democratic party... picking on girls that want to wear pants is asinine.
Typical partisan b.s.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
- crfriend
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
Typical reactionary BS: pick a meaningless target, whip it into a frenzy, and use it to bludgeon one meaningless faction or another.
Republican and Democratic politicians are in the pay of the oligarchs, and enormous efforts are going into hiding that from the electorate -- and the best way to control the simple is to keep them confused, enraged, and in fear. This theme repeats consistently through history.
As far as the electorate, they're as varied as is imaginable, but there is more common ground than that which divides -- and if they figured that out there'd be real trouble for the controllers.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
- Jim
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
At least try to understand the concern. From the article:moonshadow wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:37 am ...
I'm sorry... a bunch of grown adults fretting over a girl wearing pants...
...
So the concern is that this is a precedent for charter schools to be regulated in detail by states, which would challenge the reason for them--they want to be different from the public schools in their own ways.This decision goes far beyond dress codes.
...
Why? That “state actor” finding is key. If the ruling stands, it could mean, in effect, the end of charters as they exist.
So girls wearing pants or boys skirts is not the problem here. Personally, I'm not convinced charter schools are a good idea, so I don't agree there is a problem.
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
Gods Almighty, you lot do believe in complicating things wherever it is possible.
When I read that article the first thing that struck was that the images looked very much like standard British schoolwear.
That has been pretty much the norm since education became available en masse.
However, a modern snapshot from here would likely show a much wider dress diversity from a cultural or religious perspectve.
So, a question, could a Charter school be established on the basis that it would be run under Shariah or Sikh rules and traditions?
On the wider question of skirts, as long as there is choice, the status quo will remain unscathed.
Parents and society in general will see to that.
Your weird political and legal systems won't change entrenched attitudes one iota.
With sympathy.
Steve.
When I read that article the first thing that struck was that the images looked very much like standard British schoolwear.
That has been pretty much the norm since education became available en masse.
However, a modern snapshot from here would likely show a much wider dress diversity from a cultural or religious perspectve.
So, a question, could a Charter school be established on the basis that it would be run under Shariah or Sikh rules and traditions?
On the wider question of skirts, as long as there is choice, the status quo will remain unscathed.
Parents and society in general will see to that.
Your weird political and legal systems won't change entrenched attitudes one iota.
With sympathy.
Steve.
Re: Feds ruling on skirts
The ruling on skirts appears to be a levelling up exercise on clothing, which, on the face of it, is a good thing.Fred in Skirts wrote: ↑Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:14 pm Federal ruling on skirts could put some of our best schools — charters — at grave risk
What causes this to put the schools in danger?
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
I found this article much more illuninating.
Uuhh, what?!? TIL that the Equal Protection Clause only covers the government. Apparently because the school gets 95% of its funding from government, it has to comply anyway.The school had argued that the school is not a state actor subject to the Constitution, and that the federal law banning discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs did not apply to dress codes.
WTF?Turning to the merits of the equal protection claim, the appeals court rejected the school’s argument that there is no violation because boys face different requirements that ban long hair and jewelry.
Indeed. Mixing up sex & gender here bit though.“A state actor’s imposition of gender-based restrictions on one sex is not a defense to that actor’s gender-based discrimination against another sex,” the 4th Circuit said.
I can't believe we're still having this sort of discussion in the 21st century.“Student dress codes in particular are unsettling to those who believe, as plaintiffs do here, that they connote feminine inferiority,” [a dissenter] wrote. “But the view is not universal. … To a great many people, dress codes represent an ideal of chivalry that is not patronizing to women but appreciative and respectful of them.”
The majority responded that some scholars described the age of chivalry “as a time when men could assault their spouses and commit other violent crimes against them with impunity. … So contrary to the second dissent’s view, chivalry may not have been a bed of roses for those forced to lie in it.”
- alexthebird
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Re: Feds ruling on skirts
On the other hand, we have this Texas school district prohibiting skirts and dresses for everybody as a means to encourage professionalism.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/24/us/forne ... index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/24/us/forne ... index.html