I just don't understand...

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moonshadow
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Re: I just don't understand...

Post by moonshadow »

Well, one thing I want to make clear, as often times it's difficult to convey how I feel about different matters.

I don't really care if someone wants to have a gun or many of them. Let them arm themselves to the teeth for all I care.

It's not the guns that make me shake my head. It's not the guns that "I just don't understand".

It's not even really the obsession with them. I get obsession, we all have them.

It's the hypocrisy. It's the bald face lying that gets me. I live in an area where I'm surrounded by people who flat out shove their "faith" in everyone's face. Their mouths love to spout off the "trust in God". Yet their actions tell a different store.

It's not "God" they trust, so I wish they'd just cut the crap. I'm sick of listening to it. It's not the guns, nor is it the Christ I have a problem with... it's these far right "Christians".

It's the lying that's offensive. I hate being lied to, and every time I see the national motto shoved in my face on the back of some evangelical's back bumper, I feel like I'm being lied to.
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The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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denimini
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Re: I just don't understand...

Post by denimini »

Sorry Moon, it seems like I misunderstood what you don't understand although the word hypocrisy does ring a bell.
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moonshadow
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Re: I just don't understand...

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denimini wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:32 am Sorry Moon, it seems like I misunderstood what you don't understand although the word hypocrisy does ring a bell.
Don't worry Anthony....it's complicated. :)

It's like I've said when the Trump rose to power...

I was raised a certain way... as a child I was taught to have empathy and compassion for people, especially the downtrodden. I was taught to put Christ first in everything and to love everyone as Christ loved me... I wad raised to love my enemies, I was raised to trust in God to provide and trust in him for protection, to not worship worldly things.

When I was around 30 I stepped away from that faith and started exploring... but I always knew that no matter what I did and what path I took, I could always look to my roots... my "conservative Chrisitan upbringing" to calibrate my "moral compass".

Then suddenly, while I wasn't paying attention... singing chants towards Diana, I peeked in and saw that while I was away... those people I admired sold their soul.

They no longer care for people, they no longer have that "Christ like love and compassion" anymore. They just worship themselves, seedy politicians, their property, and the weaponry that protects it all.

My grandma prayed with me when I was eleven years old. She died in 2010... I'm so glad she's not around to witness what her world has become.... :(

I may not be a Christian and believe in God they way they do (or used to)... but I resent them [the far right media and politicians]... they stole something special to me and destroyed it. The destroyed people I care about, they took my father from me, a man I used to admire greatly, they came close to taking my mother too, but I strive daily to help her keep her faith.

I despise what they've done, may their God forgive them, because I don't know if I can.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
john62
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Re: I just don't understand...

Post by john62 »

Moonshadow, this is the history of the Christian Church for the last 2 000 years, Paul wrote his letters only 30 - 40 years after the death and resurrection of our Lord, why? because people were falling away from the Truth. Where is the Christian Church growing, not in the West but were people are being persecuted for the faith, the Gospel of our Lord will never disappear but empires and cultures do.
John
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Re: I just don't understand...

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john62 wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:15 pm Moonshadow, this is the history of the Christian Church for the last 2 000 years, Paul wrote his letters only 30 - 40 years after the death and resurrection of our Lord, why? because people were falling away from the Truth. Where is the Christian Church growing, not in the West but were people are being persecuted for the faith, the Gospel of our Lord will never disappear but empires and cultures do.
John
Yeah... I got to thinking later that day about the comment I made... I suppose my disappointment is just part of getting older and watching the world let me down.

I guess a younger me just always thought we were better than this. I feel kinda stupid for being so naive. It is a genuine mystery to me that the human species has made it so far.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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Re: I just don't understand...

Post by Dust »

moonshadow wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:36 pm Thunk about it... for the last decade or so I've been able to freely discuss matters of atheism or agnosticism, Wiccan, paganism freely with pretty much anyone... but if you say something against Trump or the people of his party... "dems fightin words..."
I remind my Christian friends all the time (and occasional have to remind myself) not to put faith in the princes of this world.

But the fighting words are not just an issue of the right. The left has their "sacred cows" as well, and they have moved past claiming that words that hurt their feelings are "literal violence" to not parroting their views being violence. When I saw the angry protesters in my own neighborhood in 2020 with signs that read "silence is violence" I was terrified. I seriously worried about my neighborhood burning...
moonshadow wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:36 pm These people don't worship the Christian God anymore...
Well said.
moonshadow wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:14 pm
crfriend wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:48 am There is something fundamentally flawed in the American psyche that thinks acts of wanton mayhem are acceptable -- or even thinkable; that's the angle I believe should be pursued. Is it going to be slow going? Yes, very slow going; look how long it's taken for such acts to become common. It's going to take longer to purge the cancer from the public mindset.
YES!- YES YES YES!

And that is why the current hill I've steaked out is the religious conservative's obsession with "mammon" and the artillery required to protect it.

They either need to admit that they've stopped following their God and instead placed their faith in worldly items and worldly people (politicians), then I'll at least respect the honesty... or...

They PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR MOUTH IS and start LIVING THE VALUES THEY PREACH and teach their children accordingly!
I'm used to hearing the argument that this is a moral problem from the right. Others are afraid to call it that and go to "mental health" which seems like a cop out, though there's some truth to that as well. The point is the people (and the society they make up) are sick. Morally, mentally, spiritually (physically, too, but that only fits in so far as these things are interconnected) sick.

We've been covering up our problems as a society for generations now with "don't talk about that" and quick pharmaceutical solutions, instead of dealing with actual root causes and fundamental ideas.
crfriend wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:16 pm ... the youth of today seem completely rudderless. Unfortunately, that problem will not get solved any time soon.
These some of these fundamental issues that need dealt with. Unfortunately, too many of those kids won't get the guidance they crave unless it's from a gang. Others will be put on drugs to mask the pain while the problems they gave only get worse.
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Re: I just don't understand...

Post by rode_kater »

Dust wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:32 am But the fighting words are not just an issue of the right. The left has their "sacred cows" as well, and they have moved past claiming that words that hurt their feelings are "literal violence" to not parroting their views being violence.
Is this for real? As far as I can tell it's a strawman. There might be some teenage extremists putting this on social media, but I can't believe it's the "left" that believe this. I put "left" in quotes because I don't believe you can treat "the left" or "the right' them as a group. We're not that homogeneous.

But I suppose America might be different.
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Re: I just don't understand...

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Dust wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:32 amI'm used to hearing the argument that this is a moral problem from the right. Others are afraid to call it that and go to "mental health" which seems like a cop out, though there's some truth to that as well. The point is the people (and the society they make up) are sick. Morally, mentally, spiritually (physically, too, but that only fits in so far as these things are interconnected) sick.
I assiduously avoid the use of the term "moral" because of it's overloaded by various religious sects, each of which claims that its own version of "morality" is correct. Instead, I use the term ethics to describe what guides me because that's free from religious taint. I am also quite candid that in very deliberately living an ethical life I am putting myself at a distinct competitive disadvantage to society -- including some of the most "moral" types out there. It's the price one pays for living a good and worthy life.
We've been covering up our problems as a society for generations now with "don't talk about that" and quick pharmaceutical solutions, instead of dealing with actual root causes and fundamental ideas.
This is one of the things that drives me up walls. Things used to be more honest and open; the "hiding our heads in the sand" seems be be something that started rearing its head in the 1960s and 1970s and only got worse from there. It seems quite recent. I'm also not sure what can be done about it because the behaviour seems to have become ingrained.
crfriend wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 2:16 pm... the youth of today seem completely rudderless. Unfortunately, that problem will not get solved any time soon.
These some of these fundamental issues that need dealt with. Unfortunately, too many of those kids won't get the guidance they crave unless it's from a gang. Others will be put on drugs to mask the pain while the problems they gave only get worse.
This is the "hiding one's head in the sand" mentality in action. The right thing to do, of course, is to hit the problem head on with rational discourse and due sensitivity. Drugs and assorted other salves are not going to fix anything; the root causes need to be understood and solved. The problem is is that nobody's got the guts to "think outside the box" which is either drugs or incarceration -- neither of which have proved particularly effective.
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