Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

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r.m.anderson
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by r.m.anderson »

What part of OFF TOPIC is not understood here ?

Although for politics especially wearing skirts dresses and the alike is not so much common -
More like flags banners signs pitchforks and whatever strikes up a good ole January 6 hoe down -

Now as for religion then we get into some strange robes skirted length garments -

Pro and Con - anti-this anti-that -

Can't we all just get along together in peace and harmony ?
NO - what fun would that be -
Gotta tickle the ribs of the opponent - well maybe not so much tickle but maybe a jab with a stick with a sharp point -
Which gets to a pointed discussion - escalation to a B-I-G Bang occasion - extension of the Spanish Inquisition -
As the guillotine falls and ends this -

Oh well tally ho - off to fight windmills - skirted (kilted) of course wouldn't have it any other way
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by Faldaguy »

by r.m.anderson » Thu May 05, 2022 8:39 pm

What part of OFF TOPIC is not understood here ?
It appears we have a built-in dilemma -- rules that proscribe political discussions unless related to skirts; and an "Off Topic" category that invites, and has had discussions on dozen of topics none of which have to do with skirts.

Other objections that note some subjects can bring on "flame wars" are not really germane -- I've not reviewed but I believe there is a rule about courtesy and respect as well --if not, perhaps that would be more useful -- for all topics.

It does strike me that there is a bias at times that attempts to suppress some topics, or members, more than others. I joined the group to learn more about MIS; and yet I have come to appreciate this group of men in skirts for their outlook on many subjects that oft have little, if anything, to do with skirts -- and enjoy the forum more for that reason. If it were exclusively skirts, it might get worn out and boring pretty dang quick! With that in mind, I'd opt for continuing the "OFF Topic" section to be free wheeling -- read what you like or not. Nobody is compelled to agree, disagree or respond in any manner -- but if so, do so politely in an effort to learn and share. IF the moderators want to flat out ban "politics" I think you will be in a dither tomorrow over what is and what isn't political, and this cafe will close.

I hope we can continue mostly as has been the 'norm' here -- but keeping the clearly contentious, totally unrelated (such as the humor posts) and loosely related to skirt topics in the OFF TOPIC section.

An Aside: Just a curiosity -- I'd almost wager that "Off Topic" is visited by more of us more often than any of the other topics.]
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by rode_kater »

My 2¢.

This forum is kinda nice when it occasionally strays into other non-skirt related topics. People don't shoot from the hip as much as in other places and sometimes you learn something.

The other extreme you get on Reddit where people post photo's and you get lots of gushing comments even if it doesn't look too good.

Obviously you don't want Off-topic to take over the site, but if we don't want off-topic conversations, then why have the off-topic board at all? There is a political dimension to men in skirts, even if we'd like otherwise.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by Grok »

There are many off-topic subjects that aren't as controversial as politics. Stuff interesting to members, but unlikely to lead to flame wars.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by geron »

Uncle Al wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:44 pm You blatantly flaunted the rules by posting this.
Er, FLOUTED, surely?? It's not the same. In fact, it's nearly the opposite.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by crfriend »

geron wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 6:21 pmEr, FLOUTED, surely?? It's not the same. In fact, it's nearly the opposite.
Yeah, and the OP missed the memo that the US has not operated as a republic with democratic representation since 2000 at the latest, and more likely the mid 1990s.

I let it go because it's not worth fretting over in the grand scheme of things.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by Uncle Al »

geron wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 6:21 pm
Uncle Al wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:44 pm You blatantly flaunted the rules by posting this.
Er, FLOUTED, surely?? It's not the same. In fact, it's nearly the opposite.
Sorry but was on lack of sleep due allergies. I had the right idea but
used the wrong term for what I was trying to say.

Thanks for 'enlightening' me on this :D

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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Uncle Al wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 3:44 pm
Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 7:13 am Al,

If you aren't interested in or dislike political posts, DON'T READ THEM. There can be no question that I made it crystal clear that my post related to politics so you can't claim that you didn't know what the post was about it and that you unknowingly stumbled into it.
Dave -

I didn't unknowingly stumble on this post.

You blatantly flaunted the rules by posting this.

I was hoping someone else would be an adult and put a throttle on this post.

You are not God and you can't re-write the Rules, to suit your desires, governing this forum.

You tried this about 3 +/- years ago and you were put on probation(Moderated Status).

Are trying to gain this status again :?: :?: :?: :?:

Uncle Al
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I posted this in response to Rode_kader's and other members' discussions of the Electoral College, which I hadn't been able to respond to at the time. Since then, I hadn't been able to find it so, I brought it back up as its own post.

Plenty of other people have brought up political topics that don't directly deal with skirt-wearing without consequence, including Brexit, without consequence. Why are you singling me out?

It seems to me that it is time to reconsider the Skirt Café’s rules of conduct; starting with the prohibition against political discussions. As Carl and Moonshadow pointed out, the culture warriors in the US and the other Western democracies are using governmental processes to wage war on personal freedoms. There can be little doubt that if the culture zealots get their way, we will be mounted on the same target as the rest of the LGBTQ+ community. No matter what we call ourselves. Consequently, skirt-wearing by men is inextricably connected to politics and how our governments work, whether we like it or not.

Moonshadow was absolutely right that any effort to deny people their personal freedoms, when there is no compelling public benefit to doing so, is venturing down a slippery slope that would probably lead to bans on our right to dress as we please. So, any number of such issues should be of concern to us.

While we're at it, maybe this time around instead of the rules being imposed by fiat, as they were 15 years ago, perhaps the revised rules should be put up for a vote before they are imposed on the members of the Cafe.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Carl said,
Yeah, and the OP missed the memo that the US has not operated as a republic with democratic representation since 2000 at the latest, and more likely the mid 1990s.

I let it go because it's not worth fretting over in the grand scheme of things.


Officially and legally, the United States of America is still a democratic republic. As many political commentators have pointed out, for all of our faith in written laws, rules and most notably a written Constitution, our system has been more reliant on norms and goodwill than we realized. The last few years have been an object lesson on why it is necessary and urgent that those norms and assumptions of goodwill be codified and set into law. Unfortunately, as Carl's post suggests. that same lack of respect for norms and of goodwill, not to mention basic civility in US's current politics makes it unlikely this will be attended to any time soon.

In the meantime, here in the backwater state of Oregon we had a crystal-clear demonstration that for all the hand-wringing about campaign financing, it's still true that dollars don't vote, people do. Because we have established such a mystique around our backwoods state (Our nickname is the Beaver State. Minds out of the gutter, the 4-legged variety.), our population growth between the last 2 censuses has outstripped the rest of the country so we have a new Congressional District. As one might expect, the party primaries for the new District's representative drew a lot of interest in the form of a lot of candidates. Of particular note was a gentleman who apparently grew up in the District that no one had heard of until a crypto billionaire made substantial contributions to the young man's campaign ... in time $11 million worth.

Not only was that the most money anyone had raised for a House seat in Oregon; it was a multiple of what all of the other Democratic candidates had raised combined! Not only did he lose to another candidate who had actually knocked on constituents' doors, the Great White Crypto Hope only received 9% of the vote and lost by double digits.

In another Democratic House primary race (We only have one reliably Red district in Oregon.), the incumbent, who had the financial backing of big pharma and a couple other such interests, lost to a Progressive I had never heard of before.

(Which actually is saying something. I have been following politics at least since I watched the Kennedy-Nixon Debates at the age of 10 and have been active in the political process, in small ways, since before Carl was born. It's not that I was ridiculously precocious; I got hooked because in my family, such public affairs programming, including the political conventions, were must-see TV. Despite the fact that my parents' and grandparents' academic educations ended with their high school graduations, the Great Depression and the Second World War had taught them the importance of staying informed and getting involved in the political process. It also helped that I had 2 older sibs to fill me in on the details that I missed -- which at 10 were A LOT!!)
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by moonshadow »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 6:54 am Not only did he lose to another candidate who had actually knocked on constituents' doors,
You know, for all my ranting and raving about politics, I have yet to actually have a candidate or even someone from their staff or campaign come knock on my actual door. I've never gotten a phone call, and I've probably sent hundreds of letters and emails over the last two decades to representatives from local (town/county) level on up. I don't even get an automated response.

I log into their social media accounts and post questions and comments about different things, and the remarks just sit there. I don't even catch flak from other social media users... they literally just SIT there...

It seems everyone just ignores my wife and I... I wonder if they'd continue to ignore me if I stopped paying my taxes?

Anyway, sorry Dave, I don't feel particularly connected to any political party, politician, activist group, subculture, etc...

Sometimes... often times... well hell, pretty much ALL the time... I just want to turn my back on all this b.s. and walk away... but it's just so hard to watch the nation I love burn to the ground and bite my tongue.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by Faldaguy »

by moonshadow » Sat May 28, 2022 4:09 pm

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 12:54 am
Not only did he lose to another candidate who had actually knocked on constituents' doors,
You know, for all my ranting and raving about politics, I have yet to actually have a candidate or even someone from their staff or campaign come knock on my actual door.

Anyway, sorry Dave, I don't feel particularly connected to any political party, politician, activist group, subculture, etc...

Sometimes... often times... well hell, pretty much ALL the time... I just want to turn my back on all this b.s. and walk away... but it's just so hard to watch the nation I love burn to the ground and bite my tongue.
Moon, I think you summarize well what a whole lot of folk feel. Perhaps because it seems so useless to protest, or even vote these days. I still harbor the hope that our votes may actually count for something -- although the clear evidence of vote manipulation in Ohio machines in the 2000 election; and active Gerrymandering leaves one in doubt.

However, my thought was I once received suave advice from a full time citizen advocate volunteer when I was feeling guilty for withdrawing from my fully engaged activism, when he told me, in not so many words, there are many cogs in the system and all are needed. Like any motor, appliance, et al ...it takes the full complement of the parts to make it run well. Your contributions, even in the confines of this cafe, are valuable. You have definitely not bit your tongue, nor should you. On the hand, others that do not speak out, often are making contributions that are not as prominent but equally necessary to the whole. Your role may change with the times and personal circumstances, but don't let that get you down.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by john62 »

Have been recently watching "The Handmaid's Tale", the original book was written by Margaret Atwood a Canadian in the '80s. The ideas in the text are already happening in some Muslin countries, could it happen in the USA? Maybe.

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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Carl said,
Yeah, and the OP missed the memo that the US has not operated as a republic with democratic representation since 2000 at the latest, and more likely the mid 1990s.


Hello Carl,

Before you again denigrate my political awareness, knowledge or savvy I feel there are a few more things you need to know about me. I started following politics at the ripe old age of 10. You see, because my parents came of age during the Great Depression and both did their bits during the 2nd
World War -- my father on a US Navy corvette, convoy escort vessel, my mother at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing turning out the currency that paid for the war effort -- they had personal knowledge of the importance of keeping up with politics and other current events; despite the fact that neither of them nor their parents were MD's. In fact, both of their academic educations ended with their high school graduations. Dad was a union electrician and mom considered herself first and foremost a mother and a homemaker. Nonetheless, they were smart, intelligent people.

From my father's example I learned to be active in the communities I belonged to. He taught the apprenticeship training classes and did a lot of work for his church. My mother modeled being involved in politics and government She volunteered for the Republican Party, was a paid poll worker at the elections and was a Census taker every 10 years. Through their involvements they became acquainted with Senators Prescott Bush, Father and Grandfather respectively of the 41st and 43rd Presidents, and Lowell Weicker, who was instrumental in getting Richard Nixon to resign. Consequently, I have been involved, in very minor ways, in the political process since my Senior year of high school, which I gather was before you were even born.

So, don't belittle my understanding of how the our country is failing to live up to its ideals, values and promise. I know, in detail, how the processes have been corruptly bent so far out of shape as to almost defy recognition. But they're still there and they still have their application. And the very dumbest thing anyone could do is to give up on staying aware, involved and voting because of your fantastical notion that elections are some kind of predetermined marionette show put on by the oligarchs.

You sir, have yet to provide one shred of evidence of that process except that you think that's what's going on and that voting for any of the mainstream candidates is a waste of time.

While I'm not yet convinced that we are ruled by an oligarchy, both Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Cabinet Secretary Robert Reich believe we are. And what they suggest the average citizen do about it: Get informed on the issues and where candidates stand on them, register to vote and then vote for whichever Republican or Democratic (Full disclosure, they generally advocate for Democrats) candidates come out in favor of the steps that will restore the democratic processes to our system.

In particular I advocate for, as Carl and others have suggested, getting the decennial redistricting process out of the hands of the legislatures and into the hands of impartial experts who can be relied upon to draw fair and common sense boundaries, eliminating or end-running the Electoral College and either eliminating the filibuster or at least returning to the talking filibuster.

Granted, selecting people for these "impartial panels" could be a challenge, but a number of states have risen to it, and at the end of process the legislature would have to approve of the results, which require the legislatures have to approve or disapprove of the panel's recommendations without amendment and then have an efficient and effective back-up plan, but a number of states have done just that. Generally with good results.

Already, there is a movement afoot that has been approved by a number of state legislatures that, when enough states to constitute a majority of the electoral college approves it, provides that hence forward those states electors will be the ones for the candidate that wins the popular vote, no matter how the people in the state voted. At first blush it sounded awful to me, but once I thought more about it, this mechanism makes perfect sense. Without having to amend the Constitution, which either a willful minority in the Senate, or as few as the states with just 3% of the nation's population (According to Justice Scalia's calculations. By the way, his response to that insight was that "The Constitution should be hard to amend, but not that hard!") can prevent, it will just take a few more states to come on board and voila, the Popular Vote will, in effect be The Vote.

Finally, the filibuster is the result of an oversight on the part of Vice President Aaron Burr when he tried to codify the Senate's Rules. But until the recent era, it was a talking filibuster. That is, a Senator who wanted to filibuster a bill had to actually get up on the Senate floor and talk their colleagues to death. They didn't even have to stay on the subject, they could read the Washington, DC phone book (for those of us who remember phone books) for all it mattered, but they had to talk on the Senate floor and when they finished 60% had to vote to close debate. Today, all that a Senator has to do is officially say they WANT to filibuster a bill and it's stopped dead in its tracks until 60% of the Senate votes to close off debate. Any wonder why nothing much gets accomplished on Capital Hill?

But what if we eliminated the filibuster? Wouldn't whichever party had the House, Senate and White House get to pass into law anything they wanted to? You'd think. But look at what happened the last time we had that confluence, the first 2 years of the Trump Administration. Ever since it was passed into law the Republicans pledged to (warned us?) repeal Obamacare and replace it with something better. As soon as all parties were sworn in after the 2016 election the Republicans proceeded to do just that. First, they couldn't agree on a replacement so, they decided to sideline that task and proceed with repeal. That didn't happen either. And the majority of the people in the country learned that they liked the ACA, even if they were opposed to Obamacare (They're the same thing.).

In other words, I highly doubt the most extreme measures will even pass all 3 of the major gates: House, Senate and Presidential approval. Whatever slips by has 3 more hurdles to clear; the rule making process -- it's become the workplace of the special interest lobbyists -- the judicial process of appeal and the next election or two, assuming we have Congressional districts that reasonably reflect the will of the people.

Finally, a point of agreement between Carl and I. The Culture War issues are, by and large, phony issues that have been ginned up by cynical politicians to distract the general public from the bigger issues. I cannot believe that any more than 10% of the Republican who so vigorously beat their chests about abortion, gun owners' prerogatives, the rights of transgender kids and the other such issues give any more than a tinker's damn about them. I'm sure they love all of the noise they have raised about the nearly nonexistent voter fraud in this country (Ironically, most of what little has occurred in the last election was perpetrated by Republicans!), because it has opened the door to them passing all kinds of voter suppression laws.

Even more ironically, the overwhelming majority of Americans oppose the right wing Culture Warriors' positions of those issues. However, by championing them and gerrymandering the state and federal legislative districts the Republicans have cobbled together a nearly unbeatable power base of single issue voters.

God bless America; somedays I think that's all that will save my mixed-up nation and all of the rest of you around the world who can only wring your hands at our collective insanity.
Last edited by Pdxfashionpioneer on Mon May 30, 2022 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by crfriend »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 2:25 am Carl said,
Yeah, and the OP missed the memo that the US has not operated as a republic with democratic representation since 2000 at the latest, and more likely the mid 1990s.
Before you again denigrate my political awareness, knowledge or savvy I feel there are a few more things you need to know about me. I started following politics at the ripe old age of 10.
We shall leave this at the point where your analysis disagrees with my analysis and be done with. "Agree to disagree", as it is usually put. For whatever reason, our visions, viewpoints, and opinions on current affairs simply don't align. Such is life.
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Re: Regarding the Electoral College and Other Quirks of the US Democratic Republic

Post by Sinned »

Ultimately politics affects every aspect of our lives from birth to death so to eliminate dicussion of politics is rather like trying to turn back the tides. Anyway as long as folks can refrain from making personal derogatory remarks it should be fine. I am learning a lot about American politics and getting different slants on it that I would have difficulty finding elsewhere. As I said before conversations just on skirts could get pretty tedious.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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