The Importance of Punctuation
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
A line of text can be interpreted different ways depending on punctuation. One debate is the Oxford Comma. A nice video on the debate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptM7Fzy ... nel=TED-Ed
You can even get a t-shirt on the Oxford Comma Preservation Society:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptM7Fzy ... nel=TED-Ed
You can even get a t-shirt on the Oxford Comma Preservation Society:
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
I tend to not use the Oxford comma but that was the convention when I was at primary school. For me it doesn't matter which you use as long as you are consistent.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
Despite having spent some happy years in Oxford, I dislike the Oxford comma because it doesn't add to or clarify the meaning. It's just extra clutter.
- alexthebird
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Re: The Importance of Punctuation
Oh but it does clarify meaning. The classic example is a dedication to "my parents, Sigmund Freud and Queen Elizabeth." Is the writer dedicating his/her work to 4 people (mom, dad, sigmund, and the queen) or 2 people, his mom (Queen Elizabeth) and dad (Sigmund Freud).
There can be real-life consequences as well. I'm quoting from https://thewritelife.com/is-the-oxford-comma-necessary/ but there was a legal case in which a truck drivers union was entitled to overtime with certain exceptions. The exceptions included the activities "...storing, packing for shipment or distribution of..." The company was in the business of distribution and took the position that distribution was a separate activity than packing for shipment and was thus exempt. The drivers said that without the Oxford comma, the exemption only included packing for distribution, not distribution itself, and thus their work was not exempt from OT.
The court found in favor of the drivers and awarded $10 million.
Punctuation counts.
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
I will still probably not use it. You've not really convinced me for my normal writing style.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
In my experience, the Oxford Comma is rarely seen in UK publications -- which is an odd thing if we invented it. I can't find my copy of Eats Shoots and Leaves, but G V Carey's authoritative Mind the Stop (1939, 1958) argues against it except in cases where there's a real risk of ambiguity, and Gowers' Plain Words (1954) isn't keen on it but notes that its use seemed to be increasing. He may have been wrong about that, at least in UK usage.
Alex's example of a legal decision is a US one. The case might have gone the other way in the UK, where legal draughtsmen seem to avoid punctuation almost entirely. But that may be changing too:
https://www.onhandcounsel.co.uk/growing ... ut-commas/
I think the real problem is that the comma implies a micro-pause in speech or a change in the intonation heard inside your head, and the Oxford Comma tends to place one where it wouldn't occur in speaking aloud.
Alex's example of a legal decision is a US one. The case might have gone the other way in the UK, where legal draughtsmen seem to avoid punctuation almost entirely. But that may be changing too:
https://www.onhandcounsel.co.uk/growing ... ut-commas/
I think the real problem is that the comma implies a micro-pause in speech or a change in the intonation heard inside your head, and the Oxford Comma tends to place one where it wouldn't occur in speaking aloud.
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
I'm now the proud owner, in paperback, of "Eats, Shoots and Leaves"
Uncle Al
Will start reading in this weekend Uncle Al
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Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
- crfriend
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Re: The Importance of Punctuation
You're going to love it. I've got a hard-cover version that I keep close track of.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
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Re: The Importance of Punctuation
I have a whole stack of these books. I am a fan of the Oxford comma and I write a lot. Editors have commented on it but it has never been edited out. Many years ago I read a particularly good example involving a Doctor and a woman next door, and the comma made a huge difference to the nature of his interaction with this woman - I wish I still had that story.
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
I tend to laugh at the grammar Nazis. You knew what I meant, & minor errors in punctuation do not change the content.
Not everyone agrees, particularly in the legal world.
Have to laugh at the Ten-Million-Dollar comma.
https://johnsonwebbert.com/news/a-few-w ... ial-comma/
Not everyone agrees, particularly in the legal world.
Have to laugh at the Ten-Million-Dollar comma.
https://johnsonwebbert.com/news/a-few-w ... ial-comma/
- r.m.anderson
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Re: The Importance of Punctuation
Would you be using the COMMA in your text messaging ?
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
That may be true, but the function of a subeditor or copy editor is to give the reader as smooth a ride as possible by eliminating distractions such as inconsistent spelling and capitalization and, er, erratic punctuation. It's one of those things that you don't notice when it's been done well.
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
I stumbled across this last night when looking at info on Quinceaneras, (15th birthday celebration, coming out, for girls in Latin traditions) I'm pretty sure it is not quite what they meant -- but, hey -- maybe the world is changing!
"Young men should be dressed in a sports coat, tie, dress pants, and freshly polished dress shoes. However, if the quinceañera is occurring during the late afternoon or evening, dressing up a bit more is recommended. A knee-length or modest mini-dress and a pair of cute (yet comfortable) heels make an ideal ensemble.Sep 27, 2021"
"Young men should be dressed in a sports coat, tie, dress pants, and freshly polished dress shoes. However, if the quinceañera is occurring during the late afternoon or evening, dressing up a bit more is recommended. A knee-length or modest mini-dress and a pair of cute (yet comfortable) heels make an ideal ensemble.Sep 27, 2021"
- crfriend
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Re: The Importance of Punctuation
This topic got quite the writeup in the local Worcester (MA/USA) paper several years ago, and it parallels the "debut" of WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) girls quite handily, but a wee bit earlier. "Coming out" in this sense, has nothing to do whatsoever with what the term "means" today; it's merely the time when the young woman makes her debut onto the "adult" scene.
Keep the boys in their place because this is a time for the girl to shine. It is what it is."Young men should be dressed in a sports coat, tie, dress pants, and freshly polished dress shoes. However, if the quinceañera is occurring during the late afternoon or evening, dressing up a bit more is recommended. A knee-length or modest mini-dress and a pair of cute (yet comfortable) heels make an ideal ensemble.Sep 27, 2021"
Note that there is no such rite of passage for boys.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
Re: The Importance of Punctuation
With my Aviation background, I immediately thought WASP = Women's Airforce Service Pilots, organized during World War II ascrfriend wrote: ↑Sat Jul 09, 2022 1:59 am <snip> it parallels the "debut" of WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) girls quite handily, but a wee bit earlier.
"Coming out" in this sense, has nothing to do whatsoever with what the term "means" today; it's merely the time
when the young woman makes her debut onto the "adult" scene.<snip>
part of the US Army Air Forces to ferry aircraft and to test new aircraft. The organization was disbanded in 1944.
So, depending upon the context or how the acronym is used, WASP has several definitions.
Just my $.02 worth
Uncle Al
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)