To the progressives here

[crfriend]

Pay no mind to that snake oil we use for freon.

At least it's not skonk oil...

[pelmut]

If you already have an air conditioning unit for cooling, there is some merit in making it reversible for heating; but air conditioning is a rarity in British houses.  I have heard reports that the electrical systems of some parts of America can become overloaded during a heatwave because of the power taken by air conditioning (no idea if that is a general thing or just a freak one-off).

[crfriend]

I have heard reports that the electrical systems of some parts of America can become overloaded during a heatwave because of the power taken by air conditioning (no idea if that is a general thing or just a freak one-off).

It's infrequent, but that does happen from time to time, and we can look forward to it happening more frequently as the electrical grid -- which is already being used for things it was never designed for -- is ageing rapidly and proper maintenance is likely not being undertaken.

Aircon used to be a bit of a rarity in New England, but in the last decade or so, the number of heat-waves where nighttime temperatures don't drop below about 70 degrees (F) now pose a significant danger to the more frail members of the population. So we can expect a larger uptake of the technology, and higher power draws as a consequence.

Then there's the question of how we're going to charge all those electric cars -- from a grid that's already wobbly at the knees. Darkness awaits.

[denimini]

 I have heard reports that the electrical systems of some parts of America can become overloaded during a heatwave because of the power taken by air conditioning (no idea if that is a general thing or just a freak one-off).

Same in Australia, the highest power usage is on hot days but at least it coincides with the output of solar panels. The big problem is that the condensors are trying to get rid of heat in a overheated environment of charcoal grey rooves and black bitumen roadways ........... and other condensors.
When I was a kid no-one had aircooling, not even the rich .............. and we survived. I am weakening now by running an evaporative cooler now and then.

[Big and Bashful]

Just to throw a bit more info into the mix- I live in a 170 year old detached house (used to be a coachhouse). There is no gas supply around here, my heat comes from oil and my lights and cooker run of electrickery. I don't heat the house when I am at work and keep most of the house pretty cool, the thermostat is in the front room and is set to 18.5 deg celcius.So certainly not baking hot.
Before the recent rapid increase in energy prices I was paying £100 per month in electricity and the same for oil, so £2400 per year for light and heat. I am dreading the next price reviews!
Someone else I know lives in a more modern house, their property has electric heating, they have been there for a few years, 3 or 4, something like that. When they moved in the electric bills were something like £120 per month, last time we spoke about this, their bill was well over £500 per month and this was still before the current energy crisis.

I don't know how this compares to the land of gas in pipes or over the pond in the U of S, but I suspect the worst!

[moonshadow]

I don't know how this compares to the land of gas in pipes or over the pond in the U of S, but I suspect the worst!

It seems about the same. Some people in my region are paying over $700 per month in electric cost alone.

I just don't know how they do it. Supposedly these people work minimum wage jobs, and yet the manage to afford this... and still manage to come up with a new car every other year, and find the funding to wipe out grocery store shelves...

It doesn't add up.

Either they're making more than they're letting on, or.... well actually that's the only real possibility. I make pretty decent money and a $700 light bill would nail me to the wall...

I look around me and I see people living in enormous houses, complete with three car garages, all kinds of toys, boats, ATVs, pickup trucks, they vacation at the beach every year.

There's more money floating around than people let on...

Sometimes I think I must be the only one really getting screwed. I can't afford any of that and I work my ass off.

I don't know... maybe that's why Uncle Sam wants to track income and expenditures in people's bank accounts... maybe he can't figure it out either... something is definitely amiss here.

[Sinned]

Moon, I will describe my heating system which is pretty common. We have a gas combi-boiler which has two uses in one. It heats incoming cold water to provide hot water for baths, washing pots and so on. But it also heats the water for a central heating system - circulating hot water in metal radiators. We have no hot or cold water tanks. Hot water is provided when you turn on the tap. Obviously cold at first as that is what is in the pipes from the boiler before the hot water feeds through. Ducted air systems are rare. I shall peruse what you have posted. Thank you.

[Kirbstone]

We built our current shack in '03-04. 4500-odd Sq. feet. Conventional cavity walls/thick insulated roof. Water from drilled well, Private (Puraflow) sewage/filtration and a tank that needs emptying every 2 years...No mains drains. No Solar...(Forget it!)
Heat by oil-fired boiler driving radiators. Oil also drives an AGA cooker which heats domestic water for baths &c. 2 immersion heaters for when the AGA is turned off for the Summer. We have also a cooker with bottled gas-powered hob and electric ovens. Two open fireplaces for peat/logs/coal (cheerful ambience/homeliness)
99% open windows upstairs policy and electric blankets (which I hate!) Radiators upstairs mostly turned off. Private luxury: one powerful electric shower.

Annual fuel bills? I don't try to calculate them, no more than I'd watch 'Exorcist Two'.

Tom

[6ft3Aussie]

Heating costs here we we currently reside, basically zero, as it's only the electric kettle, cooker, oven and on-demand water heater and the refrigerator which takes the heat from the inside and radiates it out to the kitchen. In short, no need for winter heating here, as we have sun streaming in all day between May and September, and that is enough to keep us warm. It would be rare for the inside temperature to fall below 18°C in the winter.
For the summer, the sun is almost overhead to doesn't shine in, and we're elevated enough to get the breeze and provide cooling that way. Overnight at the moment the bedroom is at a fairly constant 25°C so sleep with just s sheet. In a month or so it will be around 28°C so a nice temperature for sleeping.
That's good skirt and utility kilt weather as long as you're not too close to the river, too many midges that cause very itchy bites there.

Here generally in summer is the peak demand for electrickery as everyone has their airconditioners on, which I'm sure gets expensive. Looking at a 33°C day tomorrow with afternoon thunderstorms so I'm sure the humidity will build throughout the afternoon.
One of the joys of a subtropical summer climate.

[familyman34]

Am I reading this correctly? £27.50 per day in automotive taxes?

Dear god... how do you all afford it?

That's only the start:

Vehicle taxation (required to have a vehicle on the public road in the first place): £155 annually for a petrol/gasoline car, more for a diesel, after a usually higher rate for the first year that is based on its CO2 emissions. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

Test certificate, required annually from the 3rd year onwards: £54.85 https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/mot-test-fees

And now the big one Fuel duty and VAT: for petrol/gasoline first calculate the final price before tax, worked out as the sum of the production cost (about £0.30 per litre), the retailer's margin (about £0.05 per litre) and the fuel duty (£0.5795 per litre), then add the VAT (value added tax) at 20%. https://www.nextgreencar.com/car-tax/fuel-duty/

The equivalent figures per US gallon (1 US gallon = 3.785 litres) are production cost £1.14 per gallon, retailer's margin £0.114 per gallon, fuel duty £2.19 per gallon).

Yesterday I bought petrol/gasoline for my car and paid £1.409 per litre (£5.33 per US Gallon). The exchange rate between the pound and the US$ at 14.00hrs today, 29th October 2021, is £1.00 = $1.376.

So my fuel cost me in US$7.33 per US gallon!
No wonder that all the members of the US military that are based in the UK choose to buy their fuel at their base at US prices.

(The £27.50 ultra low emissions zone daily charge only applies to London at the moment.)

So you see, Moon, motoring is a lot dearer on this side of the pond than in the USA, and these costs are reflected in almost everything that we buy!

[rode_kater]

The biggest difference in the fact that the UK (and Europe as a whole really) are oil importers, while the US produces its own. So when people in the US gets cheap fuels that's just stuff they couldn't export. But when Europeans buy fuels, that has to be paid for by exports.

The EU net imports on the order of 260 billion€/year of energy products. Total exports is on the order 2 trillion€/year. So ~13% of all our exports is just to pay for our imported energy usage (primarily oil & gas). So there is a real incentive to reduce consumption because every € spent on importing energy is a € we aren't spending on nice gadgets (or skirts for that matter). And taxes the by far the easiest way to achieve this.

[Dust]

In the US, taxes for fuel are in the fuel prices. Set by the state, they are supposed to pay for the roads. Diesel is generally taxed more heavily, but if you use it for things other than street vehicles, you can sometimes find "off-road" diesel that has dye in it. If they catch dye in the fuel tank of a vehicle on the road, the fine is pretty large.

We also pay registration fees on our cars (varies by state, but maybe $50 per year) plus inspections (about $25 per year). Some localities have emissions inspections also. Then there was the sales tax (depends on the state, usually about 6%) when you bought it on the purchase price of the car. Some highways and bridges have tolls. A few areas have annual taxes on vehicles based on their value, similar to property taxes on buildings and land.

[Dust]

I have no experience with ground heat pumps (it sounds like what we would call geothermal here stateside), so I will have to refrain from any thoughts or opinions on those, I can tell you that the price tag seems to put them out of reach of most people in my income class.

I will have to focus on what you call an "air heat pump", or simply "a heat pump".

....

Now as for how well these forced air systems work, that all depends on the air temperature outside. In my experience they work pretty well down to the mid 30's F, and can even be pretty effective slightly below freezing. Once it gets down into the 20's F, then you'll find the unit kicking into "auxiliary" more often, which will either energize your electric resistance backup (VERY expensive to run), or in some cases there may be a natural gas or propane backup. Usually this auxiliary kicks in when the temp drops below 3-5 degrees of the set point of the thermostat and will kick back out a few degrees shy of the set point allowing the heat pump to work.

As I understand, ground heat pumps or geothermal systems just use pipes underground instead of the outside air. As Carl noted, the temperature is pretty constant once you get down far enough underground, so the system doesn't have to work as hard, and will not need that auxillary system, at least not as much.

They are more expensive because you need to dig down and lay the underground pipes. There also may be a premium just because they are less common.

[pelmut]

(The £27.50 ultra low emissions zone daily charge only applies to London at the moment.)

Bath and Birmingham have both introduced "Clean Air Zones" this year. Bath is charging £9.00 per day for vans and £100.00 per day for coaches, buses and lorries that don't meet Euro 6 standards. The charging system is iniquitous because the amount of the charges isn't shown on the signage and there are no signs that state clearly where the zone begins - no warning is sent to tell you that you have incurred the charge and the first you know of it is when you get a legal notice to pay the charge plus a £120.00 fine for not having paid within the allotted time.

I took the council to a tribunal over this and won, but they have not changed the signs and are still sending out illegal fines and collecting tens of thousands of pounds each month.

[Kirbstone]

Corr! Now why didn't I think of that? I wouldn't have to work anymore with all that money coming in.

Tom