Pressing the "HOT" button

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crfriend
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by crfriend »

Perhaps if it was classed as a power-grab over the lives of others opinions would shift a little bit. I make no bones about calling a fascist a fascist and am well known for making cracks about the American Taleban. The matter here is not about dignity and grace, it's completely about raw power and the ability for one individual or class to control another. There is no righteousness in this -- merely and simply raw power.

Put another way, why should women be considered an inferior class and treated to what amounts to a modern-day Jim Crow world, simply by virtue of their chromosomal makeup? The zealots and power-hungry are not going to give up on their quest quietly.
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by pelmut »

moonshadow wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:28 pm
... we have some real issues killing actual air breathing people today and we can't do anything about it due to political gridlock thanks in no small part to the abortion issue.
Politicians love to manufacture things to argue about, so that they can draw a clear line between their party and the others.  By arguing about abortion they are distracting the voters from the real issues that none of them has the brains or the guts to tackle.
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by Uncle Al »

pelmut wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:09 pm
Politicians love to manufacture things to argue about, so that they can draw a clear line between their party and the others.  By arguing about abortion they are distracting the voters from the real issues that none of them has the brains or the guts to tackle.
Boy you've got that right :!:

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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by Brad »

Moon said
Drive around here, there are churches with front yards full of little crosses as a memorial to aborted fetuses, there are "pro-life" billboards and bumper stickers everywhere.
I was not aware of that. But even up here in sky-blue New York State, we have Republican rural areas that appear to be Bible Belts around Central NY- such as between Utica and Syracuse, and also the North Country near Plattsburgh. This phenomenon is not something I deal with on a regular basis.
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

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moonshadow wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:52 pm
Drive around here, there are churches with front yards full of little crosses as a memorial to aborted fetuses, there are "pro-life" billboards and bumper stickers everywhere.
That's a control ploy and nothing but. Inflame the sensibilities and folks will hand over not just their souls but their wallets -- and it's the latter that lots, if not most, of those types are after.
Everyone's point about capital punishment and the religious rights tolerance of it is an excellent point, yes they can be hypocrites. But, all that aside I have found in my conversations that many conservatives I speak with are open to some kind of a government takeover of healthcare, as many can agree it is insanely out of control.
Note my operating thesis that there is vastly more that unites us than divides us, and contemplate how important the modern divisions are to keep the populace's attention away from the real existential threats. The divisiveness here is the issue because it drives a wedge through society. We see it in politics, we see it in "religion", we even see it with coronavirus problem. Keep the plebes at each other's throats and they'll never figure out who's picking their pockets and stealing their livelihoods.
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by moonshadow »

Freedomforall wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:16 am
Moon you said something a while back that seems so true and I think of it often. You basically said if it wasn't for liberals then conservatives would not have anywhere that served liquor by the drink on Sundays. I also think you are on to something about "divide and conquer".
That's true. I'm not sure if I'd qualify abortion as a liberal/conservative issue, at least not in the modern sense. Abortion has been a thing since the dawn of civilization. One thing is for sure, abortion is an issue in U.S. culture in the here and now.
The topic of children and old people always seems to surface any time the government wants to pass a bill. Children is an especially hot topic. The subject of their health and education always seems included with many large budget items. However, if you take time to read the bills then children's education is typically only a small percentage of what is in the bill. I do not wish to digress.
Children whether born or unborn seems to strike the heart strings of almost everyone no matter their polictical beliefs, etc.
As we've seen in most other matters, the cry of "what about the children!?!" is an overused political term. One of the biggest targets of the fearmongering regarding children pertains to the transgender women issue.
I agree there are many pressing issues at hand today and the issue of abortion is still at the forefront even though it seemed to have been settled long ago with Roe v. Wade. However, one of the laws are made in this country is through court cases that can become case law. Case laws influence laws and legislators use them to modify current laws or make new ones. The Supreme Court has been sheduled for some time to hear an abortion case in the coming Fall. This case is Dobb's v. Jackson Women's Health Organization. From what I understand the Texas Legislature wanted to pass a law before the Supreme Court hears the Dobb's case. Apparently, they think the Supreme Court's decision on the Dobb's case could somehow have affected their new law so they wanted to hurry up and pass it. I am not exactly sure how it all works.
Well, we'll see how it goes.
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by moonshadow »

You know, a little quick internet searching and perhaps for those who wish to sway the pro-life crowd, you could pose one simple question:

"How do you propose to stop abortion?"

If a woman wants one bad enough, she'll find a way.

"Which do you prefer, the hand of a trained practitioner, or a coat hanger?"
-Moon Shadow
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by denimini »

moonshadow wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:15 am
"Which do you prefer, the hand of a trained practitioner, or a coat hanger?"
Oh, they would just say that if a woman died from a botched coathanger proceedure that would be God's will.
Logical argument has no effect with that mob.
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

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Dr Alan Braid performed an abortion in defiance of the Texas law and is being sued as a test case by a former lawyer who lost his license after being convicted of tax fraud. The defense is that the law is unconstitutional. Also the Department of Justice is suing Texas arguing that the State's legislature enacted it in open defiance of the constitution.
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by Freedomforall »

Moon,

Thank you for the response. I apologize for implying that you view this as a liberal only issue. I was simply mentioning a comment that you made which I found rather enlightening. I always try to see things from all sides.
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by moonshadow »

No need to apologize FFA.

Personally, I find it to be a compliment when members here respectfully challenge me on a subject.

That tells me that they view a debate/discussion with me as worthy of their time.

I don't know about others, but as for me, online and in the real world, I often don't participate in debates and discussions because I view it as a waste of my time. In those cases their minds are made up and I don't stand to learn anything valuable so I just let it all slide.

It's like when someone approaches me and strikes up a conversation railing against the covid vaccine. I don't even bite my tongue anymore, I just look at them, smile, raise my proverbial class and proclaim, "here's to beating the odds..." and change the subject.

It does no good to argue with people who know everything.
-Moon Shadow
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Re: Pressing the "HOT" button

Post by moonshadow »

This has been a productive thread. I can honestly say it has increased my perspective.

That's why I like this site and the members here, unlike elsewhere, here we can have rational polite discussions about tough issues, and they normally don't get out of hand...

I have another somewhat "hot" button I want to press this evening. A matter I've been thinking off off and on over the last few years yet can't find people with the right (unbiased) mindset to explore the issue...

Stay tuned...

Warning... my first post in the thread will be a whopper. Sorry Tom. :wink:
-Moon Shadow
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