What are you afraid of

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Sinned
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Sinned »

Mass vaccination is working over here whatever the published journals say. Published papers can be contradictory and controversial and no doubt there are those that indicate the opposing view. It's what debate is all about. With huge chunks of the populace double and single jabbed incidences are falling at last. Lockdowns and masks HAVE worked. Incidentally being in a high risk occupation dealing with people, masked and not, I test twice a week and still wear a mask at work. My company recommends it and I respect my safety, irrespective of whether others respect mine.
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by moonshadow »

Sinned wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:43 pm
Lockdowns and masks HAVE worked.
Yes, I never meant to imply that they wouldn't work. I'm just saying they're not practical for American culture. As far as I can tell, the U.K. wasn't exactly tied up in a swarm of culture/race/Trump/etc/etc wars all year long. Not to mention so many areas (states like Florida and Tennessee) were extremely lax on mandates and never really locked anything down, thus people from up north flooded the gates down here, spreading the bug locally then taking it home with them...

It was a hot mess.

There's an old proverb, "fight the fights you can win". Lockdowns/mask mandates are a waste of time here stateside... Vaccines are our only hope at this point.
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denimini
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by denimini »

denimini wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:41 am
This thread started as an interesting postulation but is now straying too much into the Covid 19 discussion. Certainly the fear of Covid 19 fits this thread but further discussion on vaccination etc. please migrate to the appropriate thread thanks.
Pretty Please .............. :)
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Gusto10
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Gusto10 »

moonshadow wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:28 pm
Now hole' up for a minute...

You say this:
Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:33 pm
They were fooling around with the bug since 2003, the Chinese did the work and were paid by the US.
Then you write this:
And very simple, you can't create a vaccin unless you have prior info on the nature of the virus
So let's pull it all together, you're alleging that this particular bug has been around since 2003, China did the work, the U.S. financed it, yet for 18 years we somehow don't have enough information on this bug to generate a vaccine....

Am I missing something?

When the masks were made mandatory and interactions were decreased, the number of positive test decreased.
There are two parts here:
"When the mask were made mandatory [the number of positive test decreased]"

While in theory wearing a mask should cut down on the number of infections. The CDC first starting mandating mask wearing early on in 2020, and throughout the entire year, cases skyrocketed anyway. Why? Because Americans are notoriously uncooperative. There's nothing you can do to change that. It is what it is, the harder you try to push an American to do something, the harder they will resist. It's like trying to push to like magnets together.

"The interactions were decreased..."

See above. The interactions never really decreased. In fact, they got worse. I'd almost argue by DESIGN. I personally have my on conspiracy theory that whoever owns this system WANTED covid to break out in the U.S.. [0] I still can't figure out how this thing just seemed to magically "pepper" itself all over the map practically overnight, even among people with no known contacts among the infected. I also don't understand the logic behind our largest, and in many small towns, ONLY retailer [WalMart] cutting their operating hours from 24/17 hours per day to around 10-11 hours per day, AND funnel everyone through a single entrance. It seems to contrary to what you'd expect in a system that's supposed to be encouraging "social distancing". Our government shut down most of our park systems, closed off parking, roped off the trails, and with each closure it just funneled more and more people to what few places remained, causing "super spreader" events.

Then there is the independent nature of our government regarding states. While some [leftist] states were under hard lockdown, the states that were hard right [e.g. Tennessee] were taking in all those extra tourism dollars to the point where at one time, Tennessee ranked as one of the worst infection sites in the entire country.

Lockdowns can not work in our country due to the scattered variety of local and state laws. Constitutionally, the feds have limited power in these events, and it's up to the individual states to decide how to handle the pandemic separately. Even if the feds were to try some kind of national lockdown, considered what we witnessed on January 6th, I think it's pretty safe to say, "the people" won't stand for that.

So we need solutions that work for the American culture, and we have to be realistic about what the American public will tolerate. And I believe vaccines are the best thing we've got going at the time. Now what other countries do is their own concern. I put the U.S. at the center of this, yes I do realize there are other nations out there, but let's face it, despite all our shortcomings, the world does seem to emulate the U.S.

[0] A LOT of the 1% (Major retailers like Walmart, BestBuy, Target, Amazon, etc) among others have made out like BANDITS during this pandemic. The only businesses it really hurt were the mom and pops and the other chains that were going under anyway, but if you were already on the TOP, your foundation just got a little stronger! Not to mention, LEST WE FORGET, we have a FOR PROFIT PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. The more people get sick, the more money stuffed in the health systems back pockets. Not to mention the billions in federal handouts to all of these industries.

I'm not saying the virus itself was intentional, but I am saying the nature of it's spread, the POLITICAL DIVISIVENESS, the constant fear mongering and other bull sh!t that seems to know no end... well, I am saying the the top corporate elite of this nation milked the ever living HELL out of it, and I DO think they want the pandemic to drag on forever, because it has shown that the longer the pandemic drags on, the richer they get!

I know Carl dislikes baseless conspiracy, but I must invoke one of his sayings on this matter... "follow the money".
Yes, we all are missing lots of information, that's why I'm digging through the available scientific reports to try to find an answer and hoped thet others would become curious also and start digging also so we could compare notes.

Another few for you:
- The scientific program Leonardo on the Italian broadcasting system RAI 3 posed in 2015 the question what is the super bug China is fooling around with?
- The Johnson & Johnson lab in Leiden, the Netherlands was, according to one of its employees, refurbished and enlarged in 2014, paid for by the Dutch government; such again just before the outbreak.
- Sanofi, a sister company of Pfizzer, also member of the GSK group - will launch in Europe a new vaccin in the near future. It's now submitted to the authorities of a permit to use under special permission whilst still in trail fase.
- Moderna, a Pharma company specialised in medication for cancer files with the NIAID the technical data on a vaccin that might cope with the bug in 2017, research haven been conducted in North Carolina by amongst others scientist Ralph Baric who was also active in China.
- Peter Daszak, investigator of the problem with the WHO was kicked of the WHO team for reason of conflict of interest. He was involved in the research conducted in Wuhan, you will find his name in reports. He financed the research through his company One Health, for which he received large sums of money. From the US Government 3.1 million of which 666666 went to Wuhan. Funny figure for those who are into conspiracy and witchcraft (no pun intended).
- Peter Daszak is virologist (how to create a virus), his wife immunologist (how to stop a virus), two related disciplines.
- All Chinese researchers involved have disappeared.
- There are contradiction papers by researchers. In 2003 a PHD student wrote on subject, in 2008 it was either not taken into account, the existence denied or what ever in another PhD research project on the same subject. Normally one will build on the work of a collegue or provide arguments why such was wrong with new data.
- In my gathering of information I'm not restricted to the US and English as I live in Europe and speak/read a few more languages.
- Specialist have been put out of their jobs at hospitals for reason that they warned for the long term effects of the available vaccins.
- in general these studies are seen as "gain of function". They were prohibited (2014) by Obama. Upto that day these studies were done in N Carolina by Baric and his collegues. Fauci, when under Trump, gave the green light again without consent of the US Senate in 2018, but it was not to be done anymore in the US.
- Dr Shi, the Batlady of Wuhan, was trained in North Carolina by Baric in adapting virusses.
- Fauci, now 80 years old. Why didn't he accept other more importants posts offered, why didn't he retire?
- France was involved, to which extend?
etc.

At this moment all I can say is: I smell a rat.
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Sinned
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Re: What are you afraid of

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You obviously have a vested interest in all this but at my stage in life I have more immediate concerns about life than the convoluted series of events leading up to the release and infrastructure development leading up to the vaccine. It's all academic now and too much to read, the waters have been muddied and we will likely never learn the truth anyhow - all relevant evidence will have been destroyed by the Chinese. I'm more worried about the Chinese nuking Australia, Japan, Taiwan and others thus making covid a mere side note.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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It's a suggestive list but it's all circumstantial. Any of those statements can have many plausible reasons. Myself, I'm a fan of Occam's razor: prefer the explanation requiring the least number of assumptions.

We know new coronavirusses jump to humans on a regular basis: SARS and MERS. We know wet markets are easy places for this to happen. We know people are very good at transmitting diseases to each other. We know virusses evolve quickly, there are uncountable numbers of them and there only needs to be one that hits the right combination.

We know mRNA vaccine technology has been development for at least a decade. We also have working vaccines that don't rely on this technology.

In fact, I think the mRNA vaccine technology is the best thing to come out of this. Without this pandemic it might have taken a decade or more to prove it works and it will go on to save billions of lives. If it had happened a decade ago we would have been royally screwed. We would have had to work with the AZ and J&J vaccines which are much less scalable.

But mostly, I don't see why it matters where it came from. There is no way to distinguish between an all knwoing world-wide conspiracy and the real world, so why bother trying. Better off working up courage to wear skirts outside.
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Gusto10 »

rode_kater wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:51 pm
It's a suggestive list but it's all circumstantial. Any of those statements can have many plausible reasons. Myself, I'm a fan of Occam's razor: prefer the explanation requiring the least number of assumptions.

We know new coronavirusses jump to humans on a regular basis: SARS and MERS. We know wet markets are easy places for this to happen. We know people are very good at transmitting diseases to each other. We know virusses evolve quickly, there are uncountable numbers of them and there only needs to be one that hits the right combination.

We know mRNA vaccine technology has been development for at least a decade. We also have working vaccines that don't rely on this technology.

In fact, I think the mRNA vaccine technology is the best thing to come out of this. Without this pandemic it might have taken a decade or more to prove it works and it will go on to save billions of lives. If it had happened a decade ago we would have been royally screwed. We would have had to work with the AZ and J&J vaccines which are much less scalable.

But mostly, I don't see why it matters where it came from. There is no way to distinguish between an all knwoing world-wide conspiracy and the real world, so why bother trying. Better off working up courage to wear skirts outside.
I do think there is a small difference between providing prove and providing a summary of questions popping up while plowing through data. And living in a country where almost weekly things pop up concerning mis- or desinformation by the government one might expect curiosity.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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I'm afraid of politicians with no real knowledge of science or engineering imposing pseudo-scientific solutions on us that appeal to the masses but actually make the problems worse.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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pelmut wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:01 pm
I'm afraid of politicians with no real knowledge of science or engineering imposing pseudo-scientific solutions on us that appeal to the masses but actually make the problems worse.
Best statement - EVER :!:

Now - May we turn this thread AWAY FROM Covid-19 :?: :?: :?: :?:

Thank You :bow:

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Re: What are you afraid of

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Uncle Al wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:12 pm
Now - May we turn this thread AWAY FROM Covid-19 :?: :?: :?: :?:
Indeed.

Any more conspiracy theory or FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) will be dealt with using "power tools", up to and potentially including, account-deactivations. Enough is enough.


And to think that this could have been an interesting thread before getting hijacked.
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Fred in Skirts »

I am afraid of heights and those glass elevators. Oh and don't forget those glass bridges, no way am I going to walk out on one of those!!!!
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Re: What are you afraid of

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I'm going to throw the grenade in here, and say that what worries me possibly most is the USA!! Carl will probably understand why.

I see a large militarily powerful country driven by paranoia. One slip on 'the button' followed by the inevitable reprisals and I'm sure you can see why.
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Gusto10 »

trainspotter48 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:34 pm
I'm going to throw the grenade in here, and say that what worries me possibly most is the USA!! Carl will probably understand why.

I see a large militarily powerful country driven by paranoia. One slip on 'the button' followed by the inevitable reprisals and I'm sure you can see why.
And on the other hand the new ICBM silo's just indentified in China.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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crfriend wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:22 pm
Uncle Al wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:12 pm
Now - May we turn this thread AWAY FROM Covid-19 :?: :?: :?: :?:
Indeed.

Any more conspiracy theory or FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) will be dealt with using "power tools", up to and potentially including, account-deactivations. Enough is enough.


And to think that this could have been an interesting thread before getting hijacked.
My apologies for letting myself be led to answer questions here which should be posed under the now locked thread and react on stigmatisation.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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Sinned wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:34 am
I'm more worried about the Chinese nuking Australia, Japan, Taiwan and others thus making covid a mere side note.
I would like to think that the Chinese would be smarter than to start an all-out nuclear war. We are seeing their attempts to stall trade and cause economic woes by introducing steep tariffs on Australian products that are exported to China, but unless the government is not passing on higher costs to their domestic consumers, again it will possibly impact their domestic markets. I have to add that I am not an economist, but I do get supply/demand economics.

We have too many things here that they need and that is likely to continue to be the case for decades to come, such as resources like iron ore and coal, and they own some farms and food producing companies in Australia.
As I am in Australia, I guess the last thing I'd want is nuclear war, especially if we ended up in their sights, but if they did, they'd be literally shooting themselves in the back.

In the recent joint military exercises between Australia and the US that are going on in Queensland, there has been a number of Chinese military vessels keeping an eye on what's going on from international waters, and they in turn have been very carefully monitored to ensure that they don't get up to any mischief while they're there.
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