What are you afraid of

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moonshadow
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by moonshadow »

Gusto10 wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:47 am
So please stop disrespecting others for their choice. They are no less person than you are. And to be honest, I don't find such an attitude fitting for an open minded community as SC is supposed to be.
Alright gusto,

I've sat here and read weeks and weeks of your kicking dirt at the only real solution "experts" have come up with regarding this pandemic. You have drawn your line and you refuse to participate.

So, you're so smart, what do you think we ought to do about this pandemic to bring it to a close?

If history is any indicator, this post will be ignored.

It's easy to be a naysayer about everything, but what solutions are YOU bringing to the table?
-MS
Ray
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Ray »

Gusto,

If someone does not want to be vaccinated, then they cannot be forced to do so. We are in agreement on this.

However if the exercise of that right causes death and illness as a result of that person spreading the virus more (evidence from the U.K. suggests this) or because that person adds to the pressure on health systems, then that individual needs to accept that there will be consequences.

I note the mass of stories emerging from the U.K. in which unvaccinated Individuals have come close to death in hospital, and no bitterly regret their not taking the vaccination. Interesting. Hard to avoid some schadenfreude here.

The facts around vaccinations saving lives are pretty compelling. If you choose to ignore these facts, then I think it’s only reasonable that the term “nutty” might well be applied in some cases. I would not apply it in all cases, but if we return to my first point, I would certainly expect those who refuse vaccination to accept that they are going to help cause death and illness - in much the same way as those who refuse to wear masks in enclosed spaces (when compelled to do so). The latter group certainly could be described as nutty - as well as selfishly irresponsible.

I got vaccinated to protect me and others around me. I wear a mask for the same reason - even though I don’t have to legally (now). Many others here do the same. Both are partly to benefit oneself - but both are partly to benefit others.

Do I trust large pharma companies over doubters? Yes, I do. Not 100% trust, but at least science, evidence and logic support the former. Very little supports the latter.

Now please excuse me as I use the nanoparticles in my body from the vaccination to tap into the WiFi network and then email Bill Gates ;-)
Coder
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Coder »

Ray wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:51 pm
Now please excuse me as I use the nanoparticles in my body from the vaccination to tap into the WiFi network and then email Bill Gates ;-)
If only! Free 5G with the tradeoff of being tracked 24/7? Sign me up :D
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denimini
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by denimini »

This thread started as an interesting postulation but is now straying too much into the Covid 19 discussion. Certainly the fear of Covid 19 fits this thread but further discussion on vaccination etc. please migrate to the appropriate thread thanks.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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TheRod
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Re: What are you afraid of

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Just as an example of the ubiquity of plastic and micro plastic pollution: I was recently at Cocos Islands, one of the world's most remote islands, but in the Indian Ocean Gyre. On Direction Island there is a beautiful beach facing south to the inner lagoon, and judged Australia's best beach a few years ago. However, if one walks 100 metres of so to the north facing beach of the crescent shaped island, one finds one of the worse beaches in Australia, covered deeply in plastics of all types and cyclone damaged with broken coral, bricks and concrete from an old cable station. Almost all of the plastic pollution comes from south east and south Asia and dumped there by ocean currents. Single use water bottles and plastic thongs (flip flops in the US) are the most common elements. Digging in the sand uncovers ever smaller plastic fragments.
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TheRod
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Re: What are you afraid of

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I forgot to add that the the islands will most likely cease to be inhabitable, if not completely washed away, by the end of the century due to global warming.
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Kirbstone
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Kirbstone »

A most interesting post, Rod.

You seem to get about quite bit and it's probably not all that cheap to get yourself to spot like that. I suppose the place has no seasons a we know them. I wonder if Christmas Island is also affected by plastic waste from Asia.

Talking about what will happen before the 'end of this Century', at age 79 I can't wait.....

Tom
Carpe Diem......Seize the Day !
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TheRod
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by TheRod »

Cocos and Christmas Islands are both Australian territories and administrated by Western Australia. Since WA is essentially Covid free (apart from a trickle of returnees and ship's crews in quarantine), one is free to travel between the islands and WA without quarantine. Air and water temperatures are 25-30 C year round, with SE trade winds from June through October. Great weather for skirts day and night. I was there for the winds to do kiteboarding.

Charles Darwin had very astute observations on the islands in the Voyage of the Beagle. He was there just a few years after the first inhabitants arrived. See http://darwin-online.org.uk/content/fra ... &pageseq=1. Search for "[page] 413" to start.

The Cocos Islands have a peculiar history: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands
Gusto10
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Gusto10 »

moonshadow wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:06 am
Gusto10 wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:47 am
So please stop disrespecting others for their choice. They are no less person than you are. And to be honest, I don't find such an attitude fitting for an open minded community as SC is supposed to be.
Alright gusto,

I've sat here and read weeks and weeks of your kicking dirt at the only real solution "experts" have come up with regarding this pandemic. You have drawn your line and you refuse to participate.

So, you're so smart, what do you think we ought to do about this pandemic to bring it to a close?

If history is any indicator, this post will be ignored.

It's easy to be a naysayer about everything, but what solutions are YOU bringing to the table?
Moon,

First of all, I don't think I have been "kicking up dirt", I just tried to get people thinking and also pose questions.
based on what I have seen, just watching the figures, I do think that decrease social interaction, wearing masks and being carefull is the best approach.
I'll continu later, being called away
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moonshadow
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by moonshadow »

Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:26 pm
that decrease social interaction, wearing masks and being carefull is the best approach.
Well, that doesn't appear to be working.

Just shy of an outright cure for the disease (very unlikely) a vaccine has been a tried and true, time tested form of defense for many illnesses since vaccines were first created.

I suppose we could just let Nature take her course and let the virus rage on until herd immunity is finally reached, but how many lives will be lost before then?
-MS
Gusto10
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Gusto10 »

moonshadow wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:53 pm
Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:26 pm
that decrease social interaction, wearing masks and being carefull is the best approach.
Well, that doesn't appear to be working.

Just shy of an outright cure for the disease (very unlikely) a vaccine has been a tried and true, time tested form of defense for many illnesses since vaccines were first created.

I suppose we could just let Nature take her course and let the virus rage on until herd immunity is finally reached, but how many lives will be lost before then?
I have answered this under the covid 19 thread.
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moonshadow
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by moonshadow »

Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:14 pm
I have answered this under the covid 19 thread.
Enlighten me...

No jargon either. Simple step by step bullet points. Remember you're dealing with a simple minded country boy here...

What is the solution?

And perpetual lockdowns and masking forever is not acceptable. I'd rather die.

Again lockdowns and mask mandates DON'T WORK. Granted, they could work, but American culture just won't allow it.

We need ideas that actually work in the given culture.

Vaccines USED to be considered universally safe and trusted... then social media and divisive politics went into OVERDRIVE. Now nobody knows whom to trust anymore.
-MS
Gusto10
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Gusto10 »

moonshadow wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:21 pm
Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:14 pm
I have answered this under the covid 19 thread.
Enlighten me...

No jargon either. Simple step by step bullet points. Remember you're dealing with a simple minded country boy here...

What is the solution?

And perpetual lockdowns and masking forever is not acceptable. I'd rather die.

Again lockdowns and mask mandates DON'T WORK. Granted, they could work, but American culture just won't allow it.

We need ideas that actually work in the given culture.

Vaccines USED to be considered universally safe and trusted... then social media and divisive politics went into OVERDRIVE. Now nobody knows whom to trust anymore.
When the masks were made mandatory and interactions were decreased, the number of positive test decreased.
Traditional vaccins, being properly tested are safe and will decrease the effect having caught the bug.

In the scientific reports it reads: nothing stops the bug.
They were fooling around with the bug since 2003, the Chinese did the work and were paid by the US. They created an artificial bug and questions thereon were posed already in 2015.

And very simple, you can't create a vaccin unless you have prior info on the nature of the virus (compare it with codings on a resistor). They can read these codings under a microscope. And simply, if you don't know what you are fighting you have to figure it out by means of trial and error.
Coder
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by Coder »

Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:33 pm
And very simple, you can't create a vaccin unless you have prior info on the nature of the virus (compare it with codings on a resistor). They can read these codings under a microscope. And simply, if you don't know what you are fighting you have to figure it out by means of trial and error.
The technology used in the vaccine has been in development for over 10 years, if not longer. It’s suited for such a use because of how it works - it can accept any mrna payload to generate proteins. The reason it hasn’t been deployed is cost and distribution - most of the mrna vaccines have to be kept cold, and have short shelf life at room temp.

As for *what* to target - I think they were able to recognize a distinctive protein on it that isn’t seen in the body so it was an easy thing to target. It wasn’t developed overnight - they had to first analyze it but since they have experience with sars-like viruses it shouldn’t be that difficult.
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moonshadow
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Re: What are you afraid of

Post by moonshadow »

Now hole' up for a minute...

You say this:
Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:33 pm
They were fooling around with the bug since 2003, the Chinese did the work and were paid by the US.
Then you write this:
And very simple, you can't create a vaccin unless you have prior info on the nature of the virus
So let's pull it all together, you're alleging that this particular bug has been around since 2003, China did the work, the U.S. financed it, yet for 18 years we somehow don't have enough information on this bug to generate a vaccine....

Am I missing something?

When the masks were made mandatory and interactions were decreased, the number of positive test decreased.
There are two parts here:
"When the mask were made mandatory [the number of positive test decreased]"

While in theory wearing a mask should cut down on the number of infections. The CDC first starting mandating mask wearing early on in 2020, and throughout the entire year, cases skyrocketed anyway. Why? Because Americans are notoriously uncooperative. There's nothing you can do to change that. It is what it is, the harder you try to push an American to do something, the harder they will resist. It's like trying to push to like magnets together.

"The interactions were decreased..."

See above. The interactions never really decreased. In fact, they got worse. I'd almost argue by DESIGN. I personally have my on conspiracy theory that whoever owns this system WANTED covid to break out in the U.S.. [0] I still can't figure out how this thing just seemed to magically "pepper" itself all over the map practically overnight, even among people with no known contacts among the infected. I also don't understand the logic behind our largest, and in many small towns, ONLY retailer [WalMart] cutting their operating hours from 24/17 hours per day to around 10-11 hours per day, AND funnel everyone through a single entrance. It seems to contrary to what you'd expect in a system that's supposed to be encouraging "social distancing". Our government shut down most of our park systems, closed off parking, roped off the trails, and with each closure it just funneled more and more people to what few places remained, causing "super spreader" events.

Then there is the independent nature of our government regarding states. While some [leftist] states were under hard lockdown, the states that were hard right [e.g. Tennessee] were taking in all those extra tourism dollars to the point where at one time, Tennessee ranked as one of the worst infection sites in the entire country.

Lockdowns can not work in our country due to the scattered variety of local and state laws. Constitutionally, the feds have limited power in these events, and it's up to the individual states to decide how to handle the pandemic separately. Even if the feds were to try some kind of national lockdown, considered what we witnessed on January 6th, I think it's pretty safe to say, "the people" won't stand for that.

So we need solutions that work for the American culture, and we have to be realistic about what the American public will tolerate. And I believe vaccines are the best thing we've got going at the time. Now what other countries do is their own concern. I put the U.S. at the center of this, yes I do realize there are other nations out there, but let's face it, despite all our shortcomings, the world does seem to emulate the U.S.

[0] A LOT of the 1% (Major retailers like Walmart, BestBuy, Target, Amazon, etc) among others have made out like BANDITS during this pandemic. The only businesses it really hurt were the mom and pops and the other chains that were going under anyway, but if you were already on the TOP, your foundation just got a little stronger! Not to mention, LEST WE FORGET, we have a FOR PROFIT PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. The more people get sick, the more money stuffed in the health systems back pockets. Not to mention the billions in federal handouts to all of these industries.

I'm not saying the virus itself was intentional, but I am saying the nature of it's spread, the POLITICAL DIVISIVENESS, the constant fear mongering and other bull sh!t that seems to know no end... well, I am saying the the top corporate elite of this nation milked the ever living HELL out of it, and I DO think they want the pandemic to drag on forever, because it has shown that the longer the pandemic drags on, the richer they get!

I know Carl dislikes baseless conspiracy, but I must invoke one of his sayings on this matter... "follow the money".
-MS
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