What are you afraid of

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moonshadow
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Re: What are you afraid of

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Sinned wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:21 pm
Fred, gravy train is when you participate in a lucrative scheme that earns you lots of money for very little effort.
It's also a dog food. :wink:
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Re: What are you afraid of

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Looking at how the world is develloping, I see a parallel with about a century ago.
Some years ago I was following elswhere a thread on (whatever). One of the other contributors was also someone who by the nature of his work had to be attentive to details. Concerning topic, non work related he took everything for granted. When asked why, he stated that I had just "shot him with a dubble barreled gun". It surpises me, that well educated people take much for granted. Right now I see also a sort of parallel with the book Atlas shrugged by Ayn Rand. Is that what we want? Slowely but surely the world is imho losing democracy, mayby due to the number of people on earth, making the totalitarian system the only workable system to get things done.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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Gusto10 wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:40 am
Slowely but surely the world is imho losing democracy, mayby due to the number of people on earth, making the totalitarian system the only workable system to get things done.
It has been suggested that democracy can not work. Humans will inevitably vote for their own destruction.

I think the U.S. proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Really democracy has been dead here for several generations already. Our "elected leaders" only serve elite interest.

Oh well, it is what it is. Enjoy what freedom you have while you can, it's not going to last much longer im afraid....
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Re: What are you afraid of

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moonshadow wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:14 pm
It has been suggested that democracy can not work. Humans will inevitably vote for their own destruction.
Democracies work, but they only work when they have a large, intelligent, and engaged constituency. The US at the moment has none of those. Whilst, yes, the population is large, we've been being systematically dumbed-down by those in power, viciously divided over silly partisan squabbles designed to separate us and make us hate each other (divide and conquer) and a political system that guarantees that if you weren't born with a billion dollar trust fund you have no say at the political table. Voting has become meaningless because all the major candidates answer to the same paymasters -- ant that paymaster is not the citizenry.

What am I worried about? In priority order, because we need to solve the issues in order:

1) Wealth inequality and the siphoning off of what's left of middle-class wealth into the pockets of the billionaire class,
2) The rise of hard-line right-wing, sometimes outright fascist regimes and philosophies the world over,
3) Repairing the damage done by 40 years of reckless right-wing neo-con rule,
4) General ignorance of science and how it works,
5) Climate Change.

Look at all the existential crises we need to deal with before we get to the one that's driving the mass extinction we're in the middle of now.

One and two by themselves can shred societies and destroy cultures. Three will take a long time to do -- if it even can be -- likely longer than it took to do the damage in the first place. Four is a prerequisite to five, and five will be the killing strike.
I think the U.S. proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.
The US had a collective stroke in 1980 from which it never recovered. By 2000, the cards were clearly on the table: The USA is an oligarchy just as sure as Russia and China are -- and will be very difficult to "take back", if it even can be now.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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crfriend wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:02 pm
The US had a collective stroke in 1980 from which it never recovered. By 2000, the cards were clearly on the table: The USA is an oligarchy just as sure as Russia and China are -- and will be very difficult to "take back", if it even can be now.
I try not to sound apathetic, but really, what can I do?

I am generally skilled in only one thing, that being commercial grade cooking machines and some refrigeration. I enjoy reading books of history and culture, but often times I wonder, "what's the point?". Let's be honest, my life is going nowhere fast, and I don't know what to do about it. Sometimes I'm just tempted to let myself go intellectually, and become more like those around me. "If you can't beat em, join em" mentality. Just pig out on junk food, watch reality TV, and just generally rot my brain. It [my brain] seems to have no real value on the outside anyway... And it hurts so bad to watch humanity throw it all away-- ignorance is bliss?

I find myself completely surrounded by the fascist and neo-cons you write about locally, and what few "leftist" there are here are completely bat sh!t crazy. I've about concluded my life has but one real purpose, to stay out of the way, and do the sh!t work (on call) that nobody else wants to do. I'm really quite amazed they even allow me to wear skirts on my own time (as if you could even call it "my time") and don't tether chains to my legs.

Outside of this website, I write things, nobody reads them. I make videos, nobody watches them, then they get pulled. If I had a nickel for every time I got banned from a website, I wouldn't even have to work for a living.

While I don't expect any politician to check all of the boxes that matter to me, usually the folks that run and win only check about 10% of what's important as far as I'm concerned, even then, those leaders seem more interested in running their mouths off just to win votes.

I just don't know what to do, and I don't fancy worrying myself to death for the rest of my life, living a life of utter frustration and turning out like my father, and angry, bitter old man out of touch with the world as it changes.

So I've about reasoned that humanity will either sink or swim, and from all appearances, it seems to be sinking. I hope it can still gasp for air while I'm circling the sun on this rock, but time will tell. At the end of the day, I've still got my ........................ (edited out as I don't want them to take that last freedom away....)

I hope it never comes to that. But that's all I can do is hope.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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moonshadow wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:15 pm
I try not to sound apathetic, but really, what can I do?
There's the tragedy. There is precisely nothing the general population can do to change the trajectory short of an all-up revolution -- which I DO NOT advocate because revolutions tend to produce "less than optimal" results. Witness the October, 1917 revolution that brought the Soviet Union into being; witness the sad events of the Arab Spring that remains fresh in everybody's memory. Even the US Revolution wound up producing an oligarchy in the end. So much for high hopes, lofty goals, and fantastic rhetoric.

I can offer no solutions to this problem, I'm in the role of diagnostician only. The general populace cannot change the system because they will not be allowed to vote for someone who would change the system. The way the US elections are set up precludes anybody that might be viewed as a renegade from even getting near the general ballot; thus the apple-cart cannot be upset.

If anybody's got some bright ideas, float 'em! Because if it doesn't [get] fixed, and fixed soon it's going to be one Hell of a mess.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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crfriend wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:24 pm
If anybody's got some bright ideas, float 'em! Because if it doesn't fixed, and fixed soon it's going to be one Hell of a mess.
I think the end (of our country in particular) is nigh and inevitable. It's human nature. A new nation will rise out of the ashes, will it be freedom based, or authoritarian? Time will tell. If we manage to survive into the 3,000's then I suspect free and totalitarian states will come and go as they normally do. Note that both the hard right and the hard left are both authoritarian in nature, they just hold you to a different set of standards, but you are held to them no less, and by no free will of your own.

I suspect due to the overwhelming population of the planet, future wars and fights over resources will prove to be catastrophic. There isn't anywhere to hide anymore, and we are likely centuries from colonizing other worlds, assuming light speed travel is even possible.

Perhaps there is no "bright idea" or perfect solution other than to just let it burn. Seriously! It's this whole "cycle of life" thing. Death is not the enemy. For without death, there can be no life, and without life, there can be no death. Everything dies eventually, but new, rejuvenated matter springs from the ashes and rotting compost. All of the nations on the planet today will eventually die, the U.S. is no exception. This planet will eventually die, along with the sun, the moon, even the universe is believed to have a maximum lifespan.

Nothing last forever.

So we do the best we can while we're here. We try to be "the good guys", we help others in their time of need, we try to laugh and smile when we can, and remain hopeful for the future, and teach our children as best we can. It's really all we can do.

Sometimes I do get apathetic and I don't intend to. I've probably voted in my last election last year, but I still try to do the little things to make a difference. I still try to be kind to strangers, animals, critters. We do what we can to cut down on the amount of plastics we use and the amount of garbage that leaves this house. Little things like when returning a cart, and someone is about to finish loading their cart, cheerfully offer to take theirs too, hold the door for people, park in the back and walk, read, don't watch reality TV.

Yes, sometimes I want to just "give up" and let the beast consume me. But every day I continue to press on, and sometimes I just don't know why. I figure it's because it just feels right, and my soul won't let me [give up].
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Re: What are you afraid of

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I also wonder how the US can be fixed. Here in NL we also had a period of radical polarisation and identity politics and populism in the beginning of the 20th century, though at the time it was catholics vs protestants vs liberals vs socialists. It lasted on and off for 50 years and ended in 1917 in what is called "the pacification" which radically changed the political landscape and which evolved to become the political system we have today.

But this was without social media, constitutional change was much easier and in a much smaller country. There's a new wave of populism since about 20 years, but it's basically stuck at 20% of the parliament so it doesn't screw the system up so much. How the hell the US is supposed to get out of it, I can't even guess.

Yes, 17 parties in parliament sounds like a lot, but it is representative. Even the nutty anti-vax people have got support from about a proportional number of people in parliament. There's even a farmers party (1 seat). You can complain about many things, but you can't say you're not represented. And I guess most importantly, party donations don't matter so much.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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rode_kater wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:28 pm
I also wonder how the US can be fixed. Here in NL we also had a period of radical polarisation and identity politics and populism in the beginning of the 20th century, though at the time it was catholics vs protestants vs liberals vs socialists. It lasted on and off for 50 years and ended in 1917 in what is called "the pacification" which radically changed the political landscape and which evolved to become the political system we have today.

But this was without social media, constitutional change was much easier and in a much smaller country. There's a new wave of populism since about 20 years, but it's basically stuck at 20% of the parliament so it doesn't screw the system up so much. How the hell the US is supposed to get out of it, I can't even guess.

Yes, 17 parties in parliament sounds like a lot, but it is representative. Even the nutty anti-vax people have got support from about a proportional number of people in parliament. There's even a farmers party (1 seat). You can complain about many things, but you can't say you're not represented. And I guess most importantly, party donations don't matter so much.
With all respect, I do think you are doing a bit of a Lewis Hamilton in respect of the Dutch Political history.
As to qualifying all anti-vaxers as nutty. If someone has done his research and concluded that there are to many contradictions in the available information, that information which must be provided in accordance with international treaties is not provided and doesn't buy propoganda, is such a person nutty? I don't think so. If a choice is well motivated it should be respected.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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by Gusto10 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:36 pm

As to qualifying all anti-vaxers as nutty. If someone has done his research and concluded that there are to many contradictions in the available information, that information which must be provided in accordance with international treaties is not provided and doesn't buy propoganda, is such a person nutty? I don't think so. If a choice is well motivated it should be respected.
IF, you want to stipulate that it is possible to make a "well motivated" choice to be an 'anti-vaxer' based on the the information available, I might in that fantasy land story grant their choice was "well motivated" but still abhorrently stupid and selfish. Many a murder is carried out by "well-motivated" persons -- it is not to be respected. It is long past time to call a Spade and Spade. Failure to get vaccinated at this time, if it is available to you, is nothing short of criminal, unless perhaps you are a hermit--then you might not know better!
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Re: What are you afraid of

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Another existential threat to humanity that gets limited publicity: the projected fertility of humans is zero by 2045. See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Other
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Re: What are you afraid of

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TheRod wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:10 am
Another existential threat to humanity that gets limited publicity: the projected fertility of humans is zero by 2045. See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Other
And nothing of value was lost :)

OTOH, somewhere there likely is a group that that are immune to PFAS poisoning and they will inherit the earth.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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Faldaguy wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:12 am
by Gusto10 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:36 pm

As to qualifying all anti-vaxers as nutty. If someone has done his research and concluded that there are to many contradictions in the available information, that information which must be provided in accordance with international treaties is not provided and doesn't buy propoganda, is such a person nutty? I don't think so. If a choice is well motivated it should be respected.
IF, you want to stipulate that it is possible to make a "well motivated" choice to be an 'anti-vaxer' based on the the information available, I might in that fantasy land story grant their choice was "well motivated" but still abhorrently stupid and selfish. Many a murder is carried out by "well-motivated" persons -- it is not to be respected. It is long past time to call a Spade and Spade. Failure to get vaccinated at this time, if it is available to you, is nothing short of criminal, unless perhaps you are a hermit--then you might not know better!
As is indicated in resolution 2361 of the European Parlement, NOBODY may be forced IN WHATEVER WAY to be vaccinated. MORAL pressure is prohibited as it's discriminatory.
There is published recently a survey as to how non vaccinated people experience the attitude of vaccinated persons. The last seem to treat the first as if they are contaminated with the pestilence. Vaccinated people are not a bit more equal that others.
What really caused the increase of contaminations. People not respecting guidelines an maskwearing, lockdowns (rave parties). Again, ecen when you are vaccinated you can be contaminated and spread the bug. A vaccin is not a cloche which isolates you from others. And, following the theory that the virus escaped from a lab, maybe even one or more labs, than it maight even find a way to you if you are sitting in full isolation. It needs only one person to make the error.

So please stop disrespecting others for their choice. They are no less person than you are. And to be honest, I don't find such an attitude fitting for an open minded community as SC is supposed to be.
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Re: What are you afraid of

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TheRod wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:10 am
Another existential threat to humanity that gets limited publicity: the projected fertility of humans is zero by 2045. See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Other
Zero fertility on 25 years?

I HIGHLY doubt that....

At any rate, what's wrong with that? At least it would be a peaceful way for humanity to go extinct. No disasters, no catastrophe, we just fizzle out.

I think that woman is full of it. I see people constantly popping babies one after the other, plus, not every part of the human species is consuming these chemicals at the same rate.

Even if sperm counts and fertility rates are dropping, I think they would bottom out before they reach zero. It may be harder to have babies, but not impossible.

And again with the shaming of men that are not well endowed. Another thing that annoys me about society. Women everywhere judge men by the size of their package, yet we get yelled at if we go for looks, or breast size, or curves, etc... we are expected to "love the heart".
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Re: What are you afraid of

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TheRod wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:10 am
Another existential threat to humanity that gets limited publicity: the projected fertility of humans is zero by 2045. See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Other
That will give other species a better go. I think that evolution will take place so that humans that have less contact with toxins, radiation or whatever the cause will become the more prominant population .......... there might be some truth in the saying "the meek shall inherit the Earth" (I'm actually not religious). It is a beautiful planet and we are stuffing it up at an exponential rate.

I just heard a program on ABC Radio National which mentioned that average IQ levels have been decreasing since the early 1970's ........... well that helps explain alot ........ but the cause?????
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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