For English Language Lovers

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Fred in Skirts
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by Fred in Skirts »

6ft3Aussie wrote,
Then, people who work with electronics in the US seem to use sodder, where everywhere else in the world, we use solder
Actually we use the word solder I have never used "sodder". I was in electronics for many years.

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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by crfriend »

The "l" is silent in "solder" so it only sounds like "sodder". The spelling is misleading. I have never heard the word spoken with the "l" pronounced.
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by geron »

crfriend wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:37 pm The "l" is silent in "solder" so it only sounds like "sodder". The spelling is misleading. I have never heard the word spoken with the "l" pronounced.
In the UK, I remember hearing "sodder" long ago (like, several decades), and probably from plumbers. But in electronics it seems to have been displaced entirely by solder. I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a soddering iron.
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/blog ... -silent-l/
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by crfriend »

geron wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:29 amIn the UK, I remember hearing "sodder" long ago (like, several decades), and probably from plumbers. But in electronics it seems to have been displaced entirely by solder. I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a soddering iron.
https://www.circuitspecialists.com/blog ... -silent-l/
Thank you for that link, one learns something new every day.

Being from the Colonies, I'd never hear the "ell" pronounced in the word.
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by pelmut »

There are many forms of English, even within England.  This is English with a slight accent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHn_Cdzu0VI
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by Stu »

I teach linguistics for a living and I have to use both Standard American English and Standard Southern British English forms in terms of the lexicon, spelling, grammar and pronunciation. I was aware that US English speakers pronounce solder with a silent 'l' while BrE speakers do pronounce the 'l'. There are many many differences that go un-noticed at all levels of language. Some ones people rarely spot include:

BrE - "half an hour" - US - "a half hour"

BrE - "go and" + verb - US - "go" + verb is acceptable (e.g. "go and eat" versus "go eat")

BrE - "vet" = veterinary surgeon - US - "vet" = "veteran"

BrE - "quite" = "to a moderate extent" - US - "quite" = "completely"

British people have experienced problems in the US when mentioning a "fag" as it is a colloquial term for a cigarette, and it is a term for a meatball in gravy.

The word "murder" also means "have a longing for" in the UK, as in "I could murder a coffee".

The word "biscuit" in BrE means a cookie. In the US, a "biscuit" is savoury.

"Mincemeat" in the UK is sugared fruit. So we have "mince pies" with ice cream.

A "rubber" in the UK is an eraser and not a contraceptive. So children often take a rubber with them to school in their pencil case.

A "restroom" doesn't make sense to a British English speaker. If you say you need the restroom, they will assume you are tired.

Lastly, I was once asked by an American colleague, female, what I would be wearing to a work party at a restaurant. It was a casual affair, so I said a jumper and pumps. She thought that was odd. I meant what she would call a sweater and sports shoes - but she understood that to be a knitted dress and high heels.
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by Uncle Al »

Stu wrote:BrE - "vet" = veterinary surgeon - US - "vet" = "veteran"
This is not true in all cases. I have taken my pets to "The Vet"
to get their shots and neutering. Again, this is based on the
context used with the word.

When we salute our "Vet's" that means to pay tribute to our
former military members. A veteran police/fire member is
one who has served his/her community for their entire life.

So the word "vet" has several meanings depending on how
the word is used in a sentence.

This concept can be used with many of the 'words' you've
discussed. Personally, I like Biscuits with sausage/chicken
gravy. Or split open and loaded with butter.

Word usage is also dependent upon what part of the
country the person resides in.

Just my $.02 worth :D

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Re: For English Language Lovers

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Stu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:17 pm BrE - "vet" = veterinary surgeon - US - "vet" = "veteran"

BrE - "quite" = "to a moderate extent" - US - "quite" = "completely"
Vet I use interchangeably, like Uncle Al said - depends on the context. However, I often use "quite" in the BrE sense - generally though I use it in the "I'm nearly done" sense or somewhat incomplete. ie, "I did the job quite well" --translation--> I did a decent job, but it could use a bit more work.
Stu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:17 pm The word "murder" also means "have a longing for" in the UK, as in "I could murder a coffee".
I kinda assumed that, having watched a lot of British comedy - but I thought they were being funny with that word. I presume this is used in a "serious" sense? Or is there supposed to be a touch of irony?
Stu wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:17 pm The word "biscuit" in BrE means a cookie. In the US, a "biscuit" is savoury.
This always throws me off when I'm reading a British novel.
Uncle Al wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:05 pm Word usage is also dependent upon what part of the
country the person resides in.
USA uses all these (and probably more): soda / pop / cola
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by Coder »

Stu - I have a question... for years I've used the word "interesting" as a way of saying "I think you are wrong, but I need to research further" or "no, I disagree". I'm curious if that kind of pattern - substituting a word that means one thing for another - is common and if there are words that are commonly used in the same off way. Hopefully that makes sense, but this has always bugged me and I can't get out of the habit.
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by Fred in Skirts »

One of the things that I often hear on Brit TV. When asked the time they say "half eleven" instead of half past eleven. WHY????
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Re: For English Language Lovers

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by Stu » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:17 pm

I teach linguistics for a living and I have to use both Standard American English and Standard Southern British English forms in terms of the lexicon, spelling, grammar and pronunciation. I was aware that US English speakers pronounce solder with a silent 'l' while BrE speakers do pronounce the 'l'. There are many many differences that go un-noticed at all levels of language. Some ones people rarely spot include:

Lastly, I was once asked by an American colleague, female, what I would be wearing to a work party at a restaurant. It was a casual affair, so I said a jumper and pumps. She thought that was odd. I meant what she would call a sweater and sports shoes - but she understood that to be a knitted dress and high heels.
My wife speaks of CA, NZ, AU, US, UK, & IE as six nations divided by a common language. (Yes, there are a few more, and UK is not precise in this post)

My second English speaking country was CA after the US. The young woman at the boarding house I was staying in promptly gave me an English lesson when I asked her to pass the napkins. She deftly instructed me in such matters of English by letting me know that I had just asked for a feminine hygiene product as opposed to a serviette! :D
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by geron »

Fred in Skirts wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:48 am One of the things that I often hear on Brit TV. When asked the time they say "half eleven" instead of half past eleven. WHY????
I think this may be a regional usage, but there is certainly a vogue for it among younger folk, despite the well-known fact that half eleven is 5½. But it can be further confusing, because if you say the equivalent of half eleven to a German speaker, you will be understood as meaning half past ten.

An unrelated, but equally grating, fashion in the UK is the usage "I was sat on a park bench" in place of "I was sitting...." or "I was seated...". Sounds as though someone sat you down, instead of letting you do it all by yourself.
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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by pelmut »

There seem to be a number of authors who write entirely in the present tense when it is clear they are referring to events that happened in the past e.g. "It is the year of Queen Victoria's coronation and the Prime Minister is preparing for the event."  I can't decide whether the author thinks this 'spices up' the story by making it more immediate or whether he is just too lazy/ignorant to use tenses correctly.  (With many of these authors the mystery is quickly solved by reading a few more pages, as other examples of ignorance of basic grammar soon come to light.)
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Re: For English Language Lovers

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Coder wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:24 pm Vet I use interchangeably, like Uncle Al said - depends on the context. However, I often use "quite" in the BrE sense - generally though I use it in the "I'm nearly done" sense or somewhat incomplete. ie, "I did the job quite well" --translation--> I did a decent job, but it could use a bit more work.
Thanks. It's always good to read a different take. It obviously depends on where in the huge US a speaker is.
Coder wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:26 pm Stu - I have a question... for years I've used the word "interesting" as a way of saying "I think you are wrong, but I need to research further" or "no, I disagree". I'm curious if that kind of pattern - substituting a word that means one thing for another - is common and if there are words that are commonly used in the same off way. Hopefully that makes sense, but this has always bugged me and I can't get out of the habit.
This phenomenon is explained by Geoffrey Leach's Politeness Theory. The Approbation maxim under that theory states: 'Minimize the expression of beliefs which express dispraise of other; maximize the expression of beliefs which express approval of other.' It is preferred to praise others and if this is impossible, to sidestep the issue, to give some sort of minimal response (possibly through the use of euphemisms), or to remain silent. The first part of the maxim avoids disagreement; the second part intends to make other people feel good by showing solidarity.

He gives the example: "I heard you singing at the karaoke last night. It was, um... different"

https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Poli ... tion_maxim

It's a kind of euphemism.
Faldaguy wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:33 am
My wife speaks of CA, NZ, AU, US, UK, & IE as six nations divided by a common language. (Yes, there are a few more, and UK is not precise in this post)

My second English speaking country was CA after the US. The young woman at the boarding house I was staying in promptly gave me an English lesson when I asked her to pass the napkins. She deftly instructed me in such matters of English by letting me know that I had just asked for a feminine hygiene product as opposed to a serviette! :D
The word "napkin" is used in the UK, but is regarded as rather an aristocratic word. Ordinary folk just call it a "serviette" here.
pelmut wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:13 pm There seem to be a number of authors who write entirely in the present tense when it is clear they are referring to events that happened in the past
Yup. That is a technique common in literature to add immediacy and suspense to a text.

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Re: For English Language Lovers

Post by Stu »

Stu wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:46 pm
Coder wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:24 pm Vet I use interchangeably, like Uncle Al said - depends on the context. However, I often use "quite" in the BrE sense - generally though I use it in the "I'm nearly done" sense or somewhat incomplete. ie, "I did the job quite well" --translation--> I did a decent job, but it could use a bit more work.
Thanks. It's always good to read a different take. It obviously depends on where in the huge US a speaker is.


Coder wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:26 pm Stu - I have a question... for years I've used the word "interesting" as a way of saying "I think you are wrong, but I need to research further" or "no, I disagree". I'm curious if that kind of pattern - substituting a word that means one thing for another - is common and if there are words that are commonly used in the same off way. Hopefully that makes sense, but this has always bugged me and I can't get out of the habit.
This phenomenon is explained by Geoffrey Leach's Politeness Theory. The Approbation maxim under that theory states: 'Minimize the expression of beliefs which express dispraise of other; maximize the expression of beliefs which express approval of other.' It is preferred to praise others and if this is impossible, to sidestep the issue, to give some sort of minimal response (possibly through the use of euphemisms), or to remain silent. The first part of the maxim avoids disagreement; the second part intends to make other people feel good by showing solidarity.

He gives the example: "I heard you singing at the karaoke last night. It was, um... different"

https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Poli ... tion_maxim

It's a kind of euphemism.


Faldaguy wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:33 am
My wife speaks of CA, NZ, AU, US, UK, & IE as six nations divided by a common language. (Yes, there are a few more, and UK is not precise in this post)

My second English speaking country was CA after the US. The young woman at the boarding house I was staying in promptly gave me an English lesson when I asked her to pass the napkins. She deftly instructed me in such matters of English by letting me know that I had just asked for a feminine hygiene product as opposed to a serviette! :D
The word "napkin" is used in the UK, but is regarded as rather an aristocratic word. Ordinary folk just call it a "serviette" here.


pelmut wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:13 pm There seem to be a number of authors who write entirely in the present tense when it is clear they are referring to events that happened in the past
Yup. That is a technique common in literature to add immediacy and suspense to a text.

"There he is. His evil eyes staring into mine demanding I submit to his will. And that will is to devour every morsel of my flesh"
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