Covid 19

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Coder
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Coder »

moonshadow wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:31 am
Well, if the cases continue to rise despite the vaccines... then what? Are we all to live like caged animals for all of eternity?

I'd rather die.
France is only at 10% vaccinated, so time will tell. I
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Re: Covid 19

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I just wonder when's it going to be enough?
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:45 am
I just wonder when's it going to be enough?
I think 70-80%. The main concern - if it has enough time+people to mutate, it could change enough to make the vaccine ineffective.
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Re: Covid 19

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Coder wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:55 am
moonshadow wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:45 am
I just wonder when's it going to be enough?
I think 70-80%. The main concern - if it has enough time+people to mutate, it could change enough to make the vaccine ineffective.
Ah, my hunch is it's here to stay... there will probably always be a few hundred thousand cases around the globe... possibly more during certain seasons.

So... this is it. Vaccination is the last straw... for better or worse... after this it's time to get on with life.
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:01 am
Coder wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:55 am
moonshadow wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:45 am
I just wonder when's it going to be enough?
I think 70-80%. The main concern - if it has enough time+people to mutate, it could change enough to make the vaccine ineffective.
Ah, my hunch is it's here to stay... there will probably always be a few hundred thousand cases around the globe... possibly more during certain seasons.

So... this is it. Vaccination is the last straw... for better or worse... after this it's time to get on with life.
I have the same feeling - although from what I’ve read these things tend to burn themselves out in a few years - and even if they stick around they become less deadly over time.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by rode_kater »

Coder wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:03 am
I have the same feeling - although from what I’ve read these things tend to burn themselves out in a few years - and even if they stick around they become less deadly over time.
Or the people who lost the genetic lottery get it bad and die off. Either way we'll have to learn to live with it.

The bit that scares me not the dying, that doesn't hurt. It's the possibility of Long Covid where you just never really recover. I know of people that got Covid March last year and are now building up again at work at a day or two a week. Young people too, age 23. That's basically the rest of your life written off.
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Re: Covid 19

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rode_kater wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:39 am
Coder wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:03 am
I have the same feeling - although from what I’ve read these things tend to burn themselves out in a few years - and even if they stick around they become less deadly over time.
Or the people who lost the genetic lottery get it bad and die off. Either way we'll have to learn to live with it.

The bit that scares me not the dying, that doesn't hurt. It's the possibility of Long Covid where you just never really recover. I know of people that got Covid March last year and are now building up again at work at a day or two a week. Young people too, age 23. That's basically the rest of your life written off.
I've heard about those cases you spoke of RK, but everyone I've talked with who has tested positive seems to have recovered fully and is doing fine. It did hang around my boss for a month or so afterwards, he complained of being short of breath for several weeks after the infection ran its course, but even that has now subsided, and he seems perfectly recovered.

I have yet to contract the virus, and far be it for me to make light of it, after all karma may kick me in the nuts for these comments tomorrow, but statistically I still think I have a better chance of getting killed on the highway than I do of dying by covid, and I wouldn't ask the whole world to stop just so I don't catch it.

It's not that I don't care for others, I do. But this pandemic is what it is, and if Uncle Al's post in another thread is any indicator, it [the pandemic] is still mired in political bull sh!t... prior to Janurary, right wing media where championing vaccines and playing down the virus, the left said it was the end of the world... now the right side is saying that vaccines developed when the right was in command, but distributed during the lefts reign are somehow now not effective, and the left that was saying "the end is nigh" last year and condemning these vaccines last October are now saying everything is "A OKAY buddy!"

It's complete bull sh!t.

Take the vaccine, and live your life free... not in fear. We've done all we can at this point.
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:00 am
Prior to Janurary, right wing media where championing vaccines and playing down the virus, the left said it was the end of the world... now the right side is saying that vaccines developed when the right was in command, but distributed during the lefts reign are somehow now not effective, and the left that was saying "the end is nigh" last year and condemning these vaccines last October are now saying everything is "A OKAY buddy!"
That’s what cracks me up the most about this whole thing, the sheer utter and predictable hypocrisy from both sides.

I come at it from a distrust of big pharma, but that’s a whole different discussion altogether... and yeah, I know those companies are made up of people/researchers/scientists who care. It would take a great conspiracy for multiple companies falsify safety data... it’s just right now we only have about 5 or 6 months of safety data on these particular vaccine technologies in humans.

But I’m pretty much isolated except for food shopping and the infrequent visit to a totally empty workplace - and am fine keeping up the distancing for a year or more if need-be.
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Re: Covid 19

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Us over here are having the benefits of early entry and pushing the vaccination programme along. New incidences are right down and the number of deaths per day is in double figures. I think that it proves that the vaccines do work even though things are in the early stages. Our government/covid task force hasn't got everything right in its response but having learned a lot from the mistakes is now doing pretty well. Yes, billions were wasted in the early days due to PPE shortages and so on but, hey, it's only our money. No big deal. No doubt lots of things will come out of the woodwork ( not all of them pleasant ) during the inevitable inquest some years in the future. But generally I'm happy with progress so far and am just glad I don't live in any of the EU countries. Their leaders seem even more incompetent even if simply due to the fact that there are a lot more of them.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Coder wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:43 am
moonshadow wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:31 am
Well, if the cases continue to rise despite the vaccines... then what? Are we all to live like caged animals for all of eternity?

I'd rather die.
France is only at 10% vaccinated, so time will tell. I
12,74% as today.
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Re: Covid 19

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Sinned wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 12:22 pm
Us over here are having the benefits of early entry and pushing the vaccination programme along. New incidences are right down and the number of deaths per day is in double figures. I think that it proves that the vaccines do work even though things are in the early stages. Our government/covid task force hasn't got everything right in its response but having learned a lot from the mistakes is now doing pretty well. Yes, billions were wasted in the early days due to PPE shortages and so on but, hey, it's only our money. No big deal. No doubt lots of things will come out of the woodwork ( not all of them pleasant ) during the inevitable inquest some years in the future. But generally I'm happy with progress so far and am just glad I don't live in any of the EU countries. Their leaders seem even more incompetent even if simply due to the fact that there are a lot more of them.
The main problem is Brussels, they sprang on the bandwagon when it was roling already. National gouvernments were in the process of procuring vaccins and that was taken over by Brussels.
France is in Lockdown per Saturday coming, the Belgian court decided that the regulations to tamper the covid were illegal, the Netherlands has a major problem with the attitude of the PM, Germany has stagering covid figures, Italy in a 4th lockdown, etc.
More surprising was that the numbers in the UK declined from one day to the other with no specific cause.
Last edited by Gusto10 on Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by rode_kater »

Gusto10 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:56 pm
The main problem is Brussels, they sprang on the bandwagon when it was roling already. National gouvernments were in the process of procuring vaccins and that was taken over by Brussels.
Yeah, well, no. The problem was that the smaller countries couldn't procure any vaccines at all, some were basically getting the answer "sorry, your order is too small". Luxembourg is tiny country, how big an order could it reasonably place? The obvious alternative was to band together to make a big order and then divvy up internally. And so it happened. Remember, 16 of the 27 EU members have less than 10 million people.

You're right, we could have done nothing and we'd right now have a bunch of EU countries with zero vaccinations, which I think we agree would not exactly have been an improvement.

The message "was taken over by Brussels" is the spin the Anglo-Saxon press has given it, but that's not at all how it's perceived here.

Spare a thought for Moldova, the poorest european country, which also could not place any orders due to its size and has to depend on COVAX and only received its first vaccines three weeks ago.

But no worries, shortly the EU will have a massive oversupply of vaccines and will be supplying the rest of the world
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

rode_kater wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:08 pm
Gusto10 wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:56 pm
The main problem is Brussels, they sprang on the bandwagon when it was roling already. National gouvernments were in the process of procuring vaccins and that was taken over by Brussels.
Yeah, well, no. The problem was that the smaller countries couldn't procure any vaccines at all, some were basically getting the answer "sorry, your order is too small". Luxembourg is tiny country, how big an order could it reasonably place? The obvious alternative was to band together to make a big order and then divvy up internally. And so it happened. Remember, 16 of the 27 EU members have less than 10 million people.

You're right, we could have done nothing and we'd right now have a bunch of EU countries with zero vaccinations, which I think we agree would not exactly have been an improvement.

The message "was taken over by Brussels" is the spin the Anglo-Saxon press has given it, but that's not at all how it's perceived here.

Spare a thought for Moldova, the poorest european country, which also could not place any orders due to its size and has to depend on COVAX and only received its first vaccines three weeks ago.

But no worries, shortly the EU will have a massive oversupply of vaccines and will be supplying the rest of the world
Not reading only Anglo-Saxon press, I do maintain the idea that Brussels took over. But such to ensure that all EU members would get vaccins and to procure at a better price (at least that was the intention; time will tell if such was achieved). Some EU members opted out as they had/have a preference for the Sputnik vaccin from Russia.
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Re: Covid 19

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Some EU members opted out as they had/have a preference for the Sputnik vaccin from Russia.

Yeah the Alexei Navalny version 101 - take this shot and be poisoned or brain washed for the cure !
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Re: Covid 19

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As regards price, with the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine that's not an issue - they are supplying the vaccine at cost price. I doubt very much that, no matter how much they try and negotiate, it could be procured any cheaper. Our impression here is that Von Der Leftover muscled in in trying to stop AZ filling the UK order. The plants providing the vaccine can only produce it at a definite rate, it's where it goes after production that's the issue. Europe's latest idea is to open up the patent so that anybody could produce the vaccine. Not exactly a policy destined to encourage big pharma to retain production facilities in Europe. They can't seem to accept that they came late in ordering and that there are some ahead of them in the queue who have priority. Bullying and trying break contract law and international law is not the most logical way to go.

The latest is that the UK invested £21m in fitting out the Halix factory in the Netherlands where the disputed vaccine is being produced with the guarantee that the vaccines came here. The EU spent nothing.
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