Covid 19

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Gusto10
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Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Whatever you want to call it, e.g. Corona, Sars 2, Covid 19,I guess it might be usefull that we all share our thoughts on how and what. It's a virus that's there to stay.

One of the major questions at present is how to stop the virus. Is there a natural way, do we need vaccins, are the vaccins available good to do the job, do we have to accept the concequential dammage?

Having listened to https://www.brighteon.com/257797f0-06fa ... 71bb3adc21 \and having checked out via Linkedin Geert vanden Bossche and he has indeed posted his message there.
Essence of his story, we know to little about the virus to used the vaccins which are beong used as they will be counter productive as they teach they vaccins to change so that they will not be ciaught so easily.
As was indicated yesterday in France, there is a new strain which can't be detected via the present methodes as there was information that the scientist who visited Wuhan can't refrain from the hypothesis that it's a man-made virus.
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crfriend
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Re: Covid 19

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Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:41 pm
As was indicated yesterday in France, there is a new strain which can't be detected via the present methodes as there was information that the scientist who visited Wuhan can't refrain from the hypothesis that it's a man-made virus.
Coronaviruses are amongst the most common types in the wild, and it's a coronavirus that causes the common cold. The issue with SARS-CoV-2 is that it doesn't just cause misery and a runny nose it can kill people.

As far as being man-made, we'd need a reason -- and that reason is lacking. Some have hypothesised that it's an outcome of an attempt to develop a new biological weapon; however, that hypothesis disregards the fact that anybody with an education more advanced than junior-high school knows that such a thing would attack its friends with equal ferocity as its foes -- and all developed nations are supposed to not engage in such research thanks to the lessons learnt from several large-scale conflicts where chemical and biological agents were used (frequently disastrously).

Compounding the problem is that viruses are simple, and being simple they mutate rather quickly. This will pose issues for the population exposed to them.

As far as vaccines go, all they do is try to attenuate the transmission to the point where the virus will naturally go extinct because it cannot find a susceptible host where it can reproduce. Humans essentially extirpated small-pox from the planet, and we almost extirpated polio until the actions of an incompetent spy agency used doctors as cover and caused an uproar in the last bastion of transmission thus causing vaccination to cease and the disease to re-establish itself.

Epidemiologists have predicted this for some time based on historical trends, and it's been about a hundred years since the 1918 influenza outbreak that killed millions; we'd been overdue based on the historical cadence. What sets us apart now is out technology and our ability to do genetic-sequencing and overt vaccine design that could not have been accomplished even 20 years ago.

Unsurprisingly, the rate of spread of this version is faster than that of the 1918 version, but that's down to the fact that we now fly worldwide at meaningful percentages of a Mach rather than at a couple of tens of knots. The result is the same -- contagious folks getting off the conveyance rather than dying en-route or developing resistance during the voyage.

A number of years ago my father commented on the spread of HIV/AIDS, "If you caught that the way you caught a cold more would be done on the matter." Well, quite a bit was done. We now have genetic-sequencing tools and techniques to craft new remedies -- for now we have something that one does catch as one catches a cold.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

"For those of us in that live, or have lived in the US -- we have no excuse for using these labels -- they are not innocent, and we dang well know it.

Though I think he may have a point about motive, here is a FB post from the Sherriff commenting on the Georgia shootings which casts doubts the neutrality of much of the verbiage in play:

March 2020 Facebook post by Baker that promoted anti-Asian T-shirts.

"Place your order while they last," Baker wrote above the photo of two T-shirts that said, "Covid 19 IMPORTED VIRUS FROM CHY-NA."


And here is an opinion piece from a Physician that also speaks to our use of language: [Error in first line -- number dead is million, not billion]
"

May I point out that the information in the Old World on what is happening in the US is more readely available than vice versa?

As categorising the present virus that is making our lives less comfortable, as a flu or just another cold, seems to me as a lack appreciation concerning the thread this virus poses. Not so much as the original but also all the mutants forthcoming. Presently there is a vaccin, normally it takes about 20 years before something like that is put into the market, which will work with the original virus. Now there are thousands variations and thus the question rises whether all these will "caught" by the new vaccins. I do think that if someone like Geert vanden Bossche, who has worked all of his live with vaccins, indicates that we shouldn't be so hasty with vaccination as we know to little of the virus, we might give that advise heed. Especially as there is now a new mutant which can escape being found by a PCR test.
What is the good side of the meassures taken (in the old world)? Hardly any flu cases have been noted! Hence, if the measures don't reduce the risk of catching the covid 19 flu, it seems to decrease the chance of getting a flu or even a cold.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Ray »

Gusto;

1, could you list more than ten of the thousands of variants you cite?
2. Can you point to the average 20 year gestation period for a vaccine? In particular, I’d be interested in understanding how long it takes to develop a flu vaccine.

Thanks

Ray
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Freedomforall »

On February the 27th at 2pm I began coughing. I had no other symptoms except an 11 mm kidney stone I had been suffering with. The cough was highly unusual as it was accompanied by a very lots of congestion in my chest. Two hours later I could barely catch my breath. I made the decision to go to Urgent Care. The doctor was extremely concerned. She thought that I may have had a blood clot due to the sudden occurrence of the cough. She suggested I go by ambulance to the emergency room. I opted to let my wife drive me. I was diagnosed with Covid pneumonia and released. They sent me home with an oxygen monitor. I have little to no memory of the two weeks that followed.

Various symptoms began to appear sometimes in as little as a few hours. Some of these symptoms were extreme fever (103.9); tremendous headache, loss of smell; eyes hurting; pain all over body and nausea. I really did not expect to live through it. It is the sickest I have ever been in my life. My fever persisted around the 103.5 mark for several days. I slept almost 24 hours a day and my wife would often wake me just to make sure I was alive. I would often awake in the middle of the night with my clothing and bed sheets soaking wet from sweating. The fever finally broke after about 10 days. I lost over 17 pounds going from 189 to 172. I have not weighed 172 since high school. I am struggling with some lingering symptoms and a few new ones that appear out of no where.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by moonshadow »

Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:41 pm
Whatever you want to call it, e.g. Corona, Sars 2, Covid 19,I guess it might be usefull that we all share our thoughts on how and what. It's a virus that's there to stay.
All I am going to say about it is the various governments of the world royally f--ked up. It didn't have to be this way.

That is all.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by crfriend »

Dang FFA, it sounds like you had a rough go with that! It's good to know you're still with us.

Any idea where you picked it up? It doesn't much matter now, but it might be a useful datum to somebody.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Ray wrote:
Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:19 pm
Gusto;

1, could you list more than ten of the thousands of variants you cite?
2. Can you point to the average 20 year gestation period for a vaccine? In particular, I’d be interested in understanding how long it takes to develop a flu vaccine.

Thanks

Ray
ad 1) An atricle with the BBC indicated a few weeks ago, that at Iceland there is a lab which investigated all, they counted over 4000 variations. Further as Dr Didier Raoult (http://didierraoult.com/) in Marseille indicated he noted locally already the 6th local strain some months ago.
ad 2) all medications go through a trial period of about 20 years in order to assess the long term side effects.
Coder
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Coder »

Personally, I'm concerned about unknown long-term side effects with these new mRNA vaccines. Reading how they work makes them seem pretty harmless - you get temporary instructions to generate proteins, which then cause an immune response, hence your body now knows to look out for the spike shape of the virus. However, they haven't been used because distribution is difficult/costly (they need to be kept cold), so we have no real data on them. There have been animal studies (with other mRNA vaccines), but I haven't looked them up yet.

At the moment I'm not going to be a guinea pig for moderna/pfizer/etc... but maybe towards October I'll get vaccinated.

That being said... the more people vaccinated the less COVID spreads, and the less chance it has to mutate - from what our medical professionals were telling us, it may mutate but doesn't mutate quite as rapidly as the flu. So getting the numbers of infected down as quickly as possible would mean less mutations, and hopefully a near-eradication of the threat.

Another reason I'm holding out - if this pandemic behaves like other pandemics, in a few years time it will have burnt itself out and it will go away. I have the luxury of working from home for the foreseeable future, and am not in a high-risk group.

The other thing I find TOTALLY ironic about this situation. I swear just before COVID "big pharma" was a great threat (at least in the US), many people didn't trust them, yet we are lining up like lambs to get the shot. I at least hope people who get the shot remain skeptical of the whole process and understand that this is somewhat of a grand experiment.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Freedomforall »

crfriend wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:13 pm
Dang FFA, it sounds like you had a rough go with that! It's good to know you're still with us.

Any idea where you picked it up? It doesn't much matter now, but it might be a useful datum to somebody.
Hi Carl,

I am not sure where I contracted the virus. We rarely are within six feet of anyone. We don't even go into the grocery store anymore. We use the easy pickup option. We both also wear a mask everywhere we go. It is truly a mystery as to where it was picked up. I am concerned about the long term effects of the virus. I am having trouble remembering things and also having uncontrollable twitches with my head. Very scarey.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Coder »

Ouch, the longer-term side effects of getting it do concern me - I hope my post isn’t a call to reject the vaccine. For those who fall into any risk category getting it is a no-brainer, and like I said given enough time and other test subjects I’ll also eventually get it too.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Freedomforall »

Coder wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:17 pm
Ouch, the longer-term side effects of getting it do concern me - I hope my post isn’t a call to reject the vaccine. For those who fall into any risk category getting it is a no-brainer, and like I said given enough time and other test subjects I’ll also eventually get it too.
I share your concerns about the vaccine as well. Just look at Polio vaccine victims!
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Sinned »

Gusto10, I found a BBC article https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/55317985 which is the one I think you are referring to. In it it says:
"A variant is a different version of a virus - all viruses change and mutate so this is not unusual.

So far thousands of new variants have been found across the world, but health experts are currently focused on versions found in the UK, South Africa and Brazil."

To me this is just talking about viruses in general and not specifically Corona viruses. If you think about the number of non-specific viruses that cause "colds" then they are probably right. I think that up to now there are only about a half dozen Covid-19 variants identified.

In this article https://www.historyofvaccines.org/conte ... regulation it was indicated that a vaccine could take 10-15 years to develop but that is probably a generalisation for instances where the pathogen's characteristics are new and not known. With Covid-19 this wasn't the case as its alleged origin and characteristics were similar to previous Corona viruses so development of a vaccine was more rapid. Bear in mind that we know a lot more about viruses and developments are much more rapid than even 10 years ago. Also the expertise and the tools and techniques were present in existing laboratories. All that was needed was to set research priorities and throw some money at it. The Astro Zenica/Oxford University partnership was probably slightly ahead in its research but those in America and other places weren't far behind.

So you were close but not entirely accurate. Unless you can cite your references.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Ray »

Well, I had the AstraZeneca vaccine this am.

No fear. No worry. I’m going to be less of a threat to others shortly.

I trust the process. That’s because I’ve seen it in action.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by 6ft3Aussie »

One thing that I'm guessing that few of us are able to say is that for those who have been vaccinated against Covid 19, and given it's similarity to the virus that causes the common cold, whether this vaccine could lessen the effects of the corona virus that causes the common cold...
Medical science has always said that it is not possible to effectively vaccinate against that because of the way the virus mutates.

I know little about viruses, so I'm not qualified to determine the answer to that.

One thing I do know is that we are still required to complete border declarations and obtain passes to travel from one state to another, (and make sure you carry this documentation with you wherever you go) a process I have just had to go through before I fly over to Western Australia next week to do some RF and microwave linking site surveys for a company which services the resources industry. The last thing that you would need would be to get of the plane after a 5 1/2 hour flight and to be put straight back on another plane and returned to you point of origin...
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