Covid 19

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crfriend
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:43 pm
crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:18 pm If we're going to turn the place a Q-Anon hangout I'll simply resign.
I'd rather you didn't.
Thanks, but with the turmoil in my life at the moment what'd one more change mean? I've sent PMs to the other mods to poll them on my "suitability" for my position and shall abide with the decision. Note that I do not get a vote in the matter as that would not be proper. If it's a split, however, my inclination is to resign.
crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:18 pm False and misleading information is decidedly unhelpful in stressful times, and sowing FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) is similarly unhelpful. Nobody is asserting that the vaccines in use are 100% safe; what's being asserted is that they are safe enough for use in the general population in an attempt to stop this pathogen in its tracks. Delaying that will only increase the number of variants, some of which may well be worse then the original, and cause hte trajectory to falter and potentially fail. All we're trying to do is avoid another 1917.
This reminds me of some of the old arguments I used to hear back when seatbelts became mandatory on all drivers and passengers. The argument was in some very RARE circumstances, when the driver wrecks and needs to be removed from the vehicle quickly, the latch of the buckle may become jammed, or otherwise inaccessable rendering the victim stuck in the car while it burns/sinks/etc..
Right. And the nay-sayers won't accept the science and the facts no matter how compelling the evidence. It's borderline religion, and -- face it -- a good conspiracy theory is usually a heck of a lot more fun than the actual truth.

I'm astonished that nobody has questioned me on the "Third Shooter" absurdity. As a test case, I used that in conversation with a good friend yesterday -- and he got it, but it took several seconds. He motioned me to pause for a moment and simply said, "Third shooter?" Personally, I love a good conspiracy theory. and have started a few myself for fun. However, I categorically refuse to go along with them when there are lives or property at stake. I could have taken the "Iron Fist" route and simply deleted the FUD outright and potentially deactivated the poster if the infraction was serious or frequent enough (which it has been). I didn't because I know that would have caused howls of protest and cries of "NAZI!" So I tried calm, and rational as an approach and when that fell upon blind eyes (There's a surprise!) decided to play the absurd card which got me called "unsuitable".

The Surgeon General's Advisory has some good ideas about how to fight misinformation that's useful in a non-COVID setting as well. Worth the read.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:07 pm Thanks, but with the turmoil in my life at the moment what'd one more change mean? I've sent PMs to the other mods to poll them on my "suitability" for my position and shall abide with the decision. Note that I do not get a vote in the matter as that would not be proper. If it's a split, however, my inclination is to resign.
Fair enough, but let me just throw this in there while the other moderation team decides their vote (which I imagine would be unanimous for you staying), if they decide you're no longer fit and you resign your post, then quite frankly I can't see much of a future for me on this site either, and I would imagine a quite a few other members feel the same way.

Vote wisely Al and Anthony...
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Re: Covid 19

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Don’t get me started about HFCS. I get all manner of symptoms from that junk - I did an elimination diet once which pinpointed the cause, and I’m better off avoiding it.
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Re: Covid 19

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crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:46 pm To the Q-Anon contingent: Here's the full text of Surgeon General's Advisory. It's well worth the read. I wonder if anybody will. :(
I already read it yesterday. It came through my email box. It was a good read, but I suspect will change few minds...
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Re: Covid 19

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Coder wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:22 pm Don’t get me started about HFCS. I get all manner of symptoms from that junk -
Respect..

That's very hard to do. I've been trying to cut down a little myself. You have to be very careful. One beverage I enjoy is Cran-apple juice in the mornings. The national label (Ocean Spray) I don't believe has HFCS, and from what I can tell, the Great Value brand, as well as the Food Club private label also doesn't list HFCS in the ingredients, but beware, Clover Valley (Dollar General's brand) does... It's basically a staple in the breakfast and juice aisle.

You have to watch everything so carefully.
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:29 pm
Coder wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:22 pm Don’t get me started about HFCS. I get all manner of symptoms from that junk -
Respect..

That's very hard to do. I've been trying to cut down a little myself. You have to be very careful. One beverage I enjoy is Cran-apple juice in the mornings. The national label (Ocean Spray) I don't believe has HFCS, and from what I can tell, the Great Value brand, as well as the Food Club private label also doesn't list HFCS in the ingredients, but beware, Clover Valley (Dollar General's brand) does... It's basically a staple in the breakfast and juice aisle.

You have to watch everything so carefully.
It’s practically impossible. Soda pop is the worst offender - and some fruit drinks. I basically have given up pop (drink once every few months?). But still, condiments, plain old food have it in them. Even some snacks.
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:24 pmI already read it yesterday. It came through my email box. It was a good read, but I suspect will change few minds...
That's part of the problem -- it's not going to reach the ones it needs to.

We can write the Q-Anon contingent off immediately as they will not read it, and even if they do won't believe a word of it. The types that the SG is trying to reach are the ones that are on the fence and who may be swayed by the conspiracy theory and FUD and/or pass it along as gospel.

In the days of Rush Limbaugh (and clones) and Fox "News" I am not optimistic.
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Re: Covid 19

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Coder wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:22 pmDon’t get me started about HFCS. I get all manner of symptoms from that junk - I did an elimination diet once which pinpointed the cause, and I’m better off avoiding it.
Indeed. Unfortunately, in the US the stuff is close to unavoidable even if you read the ingredients label with a magnifying-glass.

I want to find the clown who thought it'd be a good idea to put that stuff in ketchup -- and hurt him. I cannot eat the usual ketchups now because they're simply too sweet for my palate. I've switched to Tabasco sauce instead. I still recall the ingredients in real ketchup -- tomatoes, water, vinegar, spices. Now it's tomato extract, HFCS, vinegar, spices. Yuck.

In a nation where diabetes is almost an epidemic, is this really a good idea?
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Re: Covid 19

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crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:07 pm However, I categorically refuse to go along with them when there are lives or property at stake. I could have taken the "Iron Fist" route and simply deleted the FUD outright and potentially deactivated the poster if the infraction was serious or frequent enough (which it has been). I didn't because I know that would have caused howls of protest and cries of "NAZI!" So I tried calm, and rational as an approach and when that fell upon blind eyes (There's a surprise!) decided to play the absurd card which got me called "unsuitable".

The Surgeon General's Advisory has some good ideas about how to fight misinformation that's useful in a non-COVID setting as well. Worth the read.
Thanks Carl. I think that sums it up very well and hopefully gets the message across.
crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:07 pm I'm astonished that nobody has questioned me on the "Third Shooter" absurdity. As a test case, I used that in conversation with a good friend yesterday -- and he got it, but it took several seconds. He motioned me to pause for a moment and simply said, "Third shooter?" Personally, I love a good conspiracy theory. and have started a few myself for fun.
To question an absurdity would seem to be taking it seriously. I just recognised it as an escalation in absurdity.
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Re: Covid 19

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denimini wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:25 pmTo question an absurdity would seem to be taking it seriously. I just recognised it as an escalation in absurdity.
Aw, gee. And to think that I fully expanded the theory this morning in 30 seconds of what would have otherwise been mere downtime... I'll have to "leak" it sometime.... (And I've got the perfect place if it ever reopens...)
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:43 pm
crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:18 pm If we're going to turn the place a Q-Anon hangout I'll simply resign.
I'd rather you didn't.
crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:18 pm False and misleading information is decidedly unhelpful in stressful times, and sowing FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) is similarly unhelpful. Nobody is asserting that the vaccines in use are 100% safe; what's being asserted is that they are safe enough for use in the general population in an attempt to stop this pathogen in its tracks. Delaying that will only increase the number of variants, some of which may well be worse then the original, and cause hte trajectory to falter and potentially fail. All we're trying to do is avoid another 1917.
(Snipped some long text)
Crickets from the Q-Anon people on that one who are have long been bought and paid for by big oil.
I agree with both of you on this.
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Re: Covid 19

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crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:01 pm In a nation where diabetes is almost an epidemic, is this really a good idea?
You wanna talk conspiracies...?

Let's talk about big ag (corn) subsidies...

Not to imply that the system is trying to kill us, but it does seem to be highly profitable...

Government welfare for big ag corn growers, HFCS winds up in everything, ethanol in our fuel now, etc etc..

Suddenly the populous gets sick on diabetes...

We seek treatment and in turn racks up massive medical expenses because of our for profit health care system...

People start dying...

Feed the baby Mountain Dew in a baby bottle...

Train your kids in the ways of xenophobic nationalism... remove critical thinking from schools and replace it with authoritarian dark age religion.

They grow up and consume a steady diet of HFCS in the name of "freedom"...

Lather... rinse... repeat...
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Re: Covid 19

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moonshadow wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:21 pmLather... rinse... repeat...
All of the above can be adequately explained by unrestrained greed and high-level access into a corrupt political system. Nothing to see, really. It's all trivially explainable.

Why does it happen? Because the political system in the US no longer represents the population, it represents the 500 or so richest idiots in the country. I'm not sure that malice or thought has occurred in this situation because simple greed blinds the greedy to the consequences of their actions -- and today enough is never enough, they want ever more.

The population fell asleep at the switch in the 1980 election, and the fat-cats haven't looked back since. Greed is good. Greed works. For a little while; we 're approaching the end-game on that count. At least if we're lucky.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Coder »

moonshadow wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:21 pm
crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:01 pm In a nation where diabetes is almost an epidemic, is this really a good idea?
You wanna talk conspiracies...?

Let's talk about big ag (corn) subsidies...
Heh, in a previous reply I deleted my diatribe on big corn before I posted it :D
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:07 pm
moonshadow wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:43 pm
crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:18 pm If we're going to turn the place a Q-Anon hangout I'll simply resign.
I'd rather you didn't.
Thanks, but with the turmoil in my life at the moment what'd one more change mean? I've sent PMs to the other mods to poll them on my "suitability" for my position and shall abide with the decision. Note that I do not get a vote in the matter as that would not be proper. If it's a split, however, my inclination is to resign.
crfriend wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:18 pm False and misleading information is decidedly unhelpful in stressful times, and sowing FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) is similarly unhelpful. Nobody is asserting that the vaccines in use are 100% safe; what's being asserted is that they are safe enough for use in the general population in an attempt to stop this pathogen in its tracks. Delaying that will only increase the number of variants, some of which may well be worse then the original, and cause hte trajectory to falter and potentially fail. All we're trying to do is avoid another 1917.
This reminds me of some of the old arguments I used to hear back when seatbelts became mandatory on all drivers and passengers. The argument was in some very RARE circumstances, when the driver wrecks and needs to be removed from the vehicle quickly, the latch of the buckle may become jammed, or otherwise inaccessable rendering the victim stuck in the car while it burns/sinks/etc..
Right. And the nay-sayers won't accept the science and the facts no matter how compelling the evidence. It's borderline religion, and -- face it -- a good conspiracy theory is usually a heck of a lot more fun than the actual truth.

I'm astonished that nobody has questioned me on the "Third Shooter" absurdity. As a test case, I used that in conversation with a good friend yesterday -- and he got it, but it took several seconds. He motioned me to pause for a moment and simply said, "Third shooter?" Personally, I love a good conspiracy theory. and have started a few myself for fun. However, I categorically refuse to go along with them when there are lives or property at stake. I could have taken the "Iron Fist" route and simply deleted the FUD outright and potentially deactivated the poster if the infraction was serious or frequent enough (which it has been). I didn't because I know that would have caused howls of protest and cries of "NAZI!" So I tried calm, and rational as an approach and when that fell upon blind eyes (There's a surprise!) decided to play the absurd card which got me called "unsuitable".

The Surgeon General's Advisory has some good ideas about how to fight misinformation that's useful in a non-COVID setting as well. Worth the read.
The "third shooter" theory is also known on the other side of the Atlantic, shown also on Discovery Channel. In my opinion all possibilities are still open there, but there is no prove thereof, hence it might be a false claim.

I do think it's a good thing that you involved the other mederators, as it's not so much about the discussion whether information provided is correct or incorrect (the last still lacks prove), but disqualifying someone's opinion immediately as conspiracy etc. without proper argument and not retaining control of yourself in that respect, even after a p.m. I do think that under the off topic open discussions should have space to be conducted in a fashion where respect for the opinion is taken serious. Especcialy a topic that touches us all, wherever we live, whatever we do. We don't know how we are menipulated. The French newschannel France Info just published this:
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/monde/proch ... or=EPR-51-[enquete-revelations-sur-pegasus-un-logiciel-espion-utilise-par-des-etats-pour-cibler-des-politiques-des-journalistes-des-avocats-dont-des-francais_4707335]-20210718-[bouton]
The spoken part is can be understood by all I guess. France Info is a official state news channel. But the point I want to make is that the information I read is not only limited to US info, but also to info in Europe in various languages. Those do contradict each other. I thought, maybe mistakenly that bringing the other that state information to your attention could be interesting for all. By stigmatising it as disinformation with out proper argument and even using a form of name calling, I do think the line was crossed.
Translating the GS warning: anything that isn't political correct should be considered as mis information. Thus the documents presented, which were retrieved from the US NIH are seemingly deemed to be considered as mis information. QEnDS (a variation on a theme for those who are classically schooled).
Last but not least, I don't want to live in a Orwellian world, eventhough we have passed the year 1984.
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