Covid 19

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Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Kirbstone wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:38 am You don't get closer to strangers than when you practice Dentistry.. Throughout the period we have been full time at work , four of us in this progressive practice. We have never been busier and to date I have not knowingly treated anyone who has Covid.

Needless to say I'm double vaccinated myself and I have my digital EU vaccination card. There are now mutterings abroad that it may be wise later on to have a booster jab, which I'd be totally in agreement with.

Indoor dining is about to be restarted here, but only for those who can show this EU Cert. I expect that will apply to theatres & concert halls too.

Tom
France is now pushing towards mandatory EU certificate and a 3rd shot as the Delta version has made quit a few sick who were double vaccinated. What the Lambda version will cause, already found in the UK and Germany, is still a surprise eventhough it was the most important strain in Peru and Chile. One couldn't compare yet as the original strains weren't there yet.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by pelmut »

Ray wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:13 am I agree that getting the vaccination is one’s free choice. I want to see them accept the consequences of their inaction though.
It's other people who are put at risk by their choices.  If they were the only ones who suffered and/or died because of their decisions, there wouldn't be a problem.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Ray »

I agree.

If you refuse to get vaccinated, then you’re a danger to society. Therefore Society has to control your movements so that your risk to others around you are minimised.

I have little patience with those who refuse the vaccine. Unless you’re really on your own, or have good reason (medical) to avoid it, get the bloody jab.

It’s like letting smokers practice their carcinogenic habit around others indoors. Insane. Luckily we now have rules that stop that.

Fascinating to see the abject selfishness of those who will not accept the vaccine. Keep them away from society. It’s safer for all.
john62
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Re: Covid 19

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Yesterday I had two patients, one had a son who was told by the girlfriend's parents that he was not welcome in the house if he was not vaccinated and another 26 year woman who was told by the boyfriend's parents that she was not welcome if she was vaccinated, stupidity is growing!

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Re: Covid 19

Post by 6ft3Aussie »

As for vaccination for Covid-19 that it will be included in the scheduled vaccinations which we receive from new born until at least 15 years of age.
Eventually we will all get it routinely.

I have now had both shits of Pfizer, and zero adverse effects from either, and while those who are vaccinated shouldn't become sick with it, we may till potentially become carriers.

We all need to do our part to be art of the solution and not perpetuate the problem.
For us the goal is to achieve 80% of the population fully vaccinated, then all restrictions can be lifted and we will then treat Covid-19 in a similar way we do the flu etc.
Some states here are on their 5th lockdown, as the delta strain which was introduced to Australia by the flight crew on a commercial freight flight, who passed it on to a taxi/limousine driver has caused significant numbers of infections.
We are on alert for the possibility of transmission here in QLD... Here's hoping not.
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moonshadow
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Re: Covid 19

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And now mask mandates are coming back and possibly more lockdowns...

*sighs*...

It's never going to end. Why?

Politics. Just politics. :blue:

I don't want to play this game anymore. Actually I never wanted to play this game.

I imagine I'll be required to mask up again at work if the CDC requires it. I'm not wearing mask after hours though unless I observe that EVERYONE in the establishment is also wearing a mask. I don't want the germs of unvaccinated people getting stuck in my mask. I realize there is still a possibility I can inhale the droplets of the unvaccinated without a mask, but there's no reason in getting their germs actually stuck to the front of my face.

I did my part from day one. I'm reaching the limit of what I'm willing to do for this society that is growing increasingly unworthy of my cooperation and consideration.
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Coder
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Re: Covid 19

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It'll be interesting to see how far they take them in the US - an epidemiologist told me that there is little political will for more lockdowns. The usual actors (CA, NY, etc...) will likely re-implement a lot of the restrictions, but it's unlikely to be an across the nation change.

Here's a good article on Slate about COVID and vaccinated folk:

https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/co ... cases.html

And I think if you trawl news articles and social media you'll find that the general trend is:

* most hospitalizations are for unvaccinated people
* vaccinated can get a mild case - but mild covid can be like a regular cold
* deaths are way down, regardless of the high case counts

What has concerned me from the beginning with the vaccinated - that there will be a sense of invulnerability, and the virus would mutate and spread amongst them - not causing symptoms - creating a super covid. But, that is probably an irrational fear, I have many.
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moonshadow
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Re: Covid 19

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Coder wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:28 pm Here's a good article on Slate about COVID and vaccinated folk:

https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/co ... cases.html

And I think if you trawl news articles and social media you'll find that the general trend is:

* most hospitalizations are for unvaccinated people
* vaccinated can get a mild case - but mild covid can be like a regular cold
* deaths are way down, regardless of the high case counts
The experts allow that the vaccine is generally more effective than the seasonal flu shot, and I get the flu shot every year too.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. I have my own reasoning with my refusal to wear a mask in places where most other's are not wearing a mask. That being, with the current politics of my region, I'm certain most people here [at my locale] will simply refuse to vaccinate and wear a mask when cases soar again. I'd be one of the few (think maybe one out of a hundred) people actually wearing a mask.

We all should know by now that mask are there to prevent the wearer from spreading their germs, not so much for the protection of the wearer. I've had many arguments about this locally back when mask mandates were in full swing in early 2020. When I popped the question "well, why do surgeons wear mask when operating?"

Crickets... or "well uh.. see naw dat's different..."

"Really? How so?"

"uh.. jus-iz."

Mmmhmm...

I am fortunate to live in a area of relative low population density. Granted, not as thin as the wilds of Wyoming or other midwestern areas, but generally speaking the largest cities in the Appalachian region struggle to top 100k people, with most cities running closer to 50k, and small towns anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand, with wide rural swaths of uninhabited lands.

I'm a natural social distancer, just ask my mother, who has often picked at me for my refusal to "hug" and get close to people since childhood. And I believe social distancing is my best defense in this area. The increasingly obnoxious behavior of locals, and my insistence to wear clothes that tend to draw their scorn has pushed me towards more private outings here these last several months, think long rural car rides, avoiding places where people gather, even when stopping to pee, I often look for private waysides rather than gas stations which can be somewhat unsanitary even during non-covid times. I especially hate stopping to answer the call of nature in those really far out, out of the way, redneck establishments... give me a tree over a hillside any day..... after a quick scan for wildlife cameras of course.. :wink:

Anyway, living in an area with people highly resistant to the current state and federal government (Democrat), I feel wearing a mask around hundreds of people, unvaccinated, and also refusing to wear a mask would only put me at higher risk, as their droplets would just get stuck to my face, I'd eventually breathe them in.

This Delta variant likely wouldn't be making such a mark here had people had gotten the jab back before it [the Delta] really broke out. But I guess it is what it is, and underscores what I've been saying for a while now, Covid-19 is here to stay. It is likely that covid-19 or one of its variants will indeed kill me.. hopefully at an old age and not in the foreseeable future.

But if it snags me and wipes me out sooner, well, all the more reason to enjoy life now. We can not cheat death, nobody is exempt.
Coder wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:28 pm It'll be interesting to see how far they take them in the US - an epidemiologist told me that there is little political will for more lockdowns. The usual actors (CA, NY, etc...) will likely re-implement a lot of the restrictions, but it's unlikely to be an across the nation change.
If Trump was still the president, then I'd say without a doubt that CA, NY, and other hard blue states WILL lock down, as it does seem like the first wave of lockdowns back in 2020 were nothing more than a pissing contest between Trump politicians and anti-Trump politicians. It's really a shame that that pissing contest cost so many lives and livelihoods. We have proven however that while in theory, lockdowns *could* work, in American culture, they don't work. The more you try to lock Americans down, the more active they will be.

Lee wouldn't lock Tennessee down if the Lord Jesus came down and told him to himself, same goes for Gov. Justice in West Virginia, those two states are in a friendly rivalry over who can out Trump the other, I can't really peg Kentucky's politics, mostly red but with a curiously Democratic governor. Very odd.... Northram might try, but it's an election year, and while he can't seek reelection (Virginia governors can only serve single terms), I imagine he won't be trying to stick it to McAauliffe (the Democratic nominee), though I look for him (Northram) to try something during his "lame duck" session. It's really hard to say. I don't know much about North Carolina politics, but I get the sense that they are on the cusp of flipping blue any time now (they are very purple now, where Virginia was about 10 years ago), so I'm sure they're treading lightly on both sides regarding possible covid lockdowns. And those are all the states in my bubble, and where I spend 99.999% of my time.

Time will tell.
-Andrea
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Big and Bashful
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Big and Bashful »

As far as I know there has been no relaxation of the mask mandate in shops and on public transport in Scotland, although I have given up watching politicians faffing about on telly so maybe the rules have been relaxed. However when I went for a rather wonderful kebab a couple of days ago and in the 2 shops I visited briefly today, nobody was masked, so maybe the rules have changed here, so I didn't bother masking up. Being double jagged and minimising contact with people I think the risk in either direction is probably now tolerable. In busy or badly ventilated places I will still mask, but would rather avoid being there completely.
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Re: Covid 19

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Big and Bashful wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:07 pmAs far as I know there has been no relaxation of the mask mandate in shops and on public transport in Scotland, although I have given up watching politicians faffing about on telly so maybe the rules have been relaxed.
Largely it's mainly down to the percentage of folks who are fully vaccinated, and what the immediate local transmission rates are. Area with a high percentage of vaccinated people and a low transmission rate are likely to ease up on masks and the like, whereas that is not a good idea in a poorly-vaccinated population where transmission rates remain high.

Massachusetts seems to be faring pretty well, although the transmission rate is climbing, and has been for a few weeks. I don't know whether a return to the masks and plexiglass silliness is going to return, but I really doubt that there'll be another lockdown; the price of those in terms of lost wages, business failures, and the inevitable toll on the mental health of the population is too grim to seriously consider. However, in other areas where things are worse, a full return-to-lockdown is a possibility.

Just in case, I went looking for -- and found -- the mask I made so many moons ago just in case I need it. I know it's not going to do me much good, but if something goes wrong and I do catch this thing, it may help someone else and that's important. It's called living responsibly in a society, and societies are greater than the sum of their parts.
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moonshadow
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Re: Covid 19

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crfriend wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:39 pm Massachusetts seems to be faring pretty well, although the transmission rate is climbing, and has been for a few weeks. I don't know whether a return to the masks and plexiglass silliness is going to return, but I really doubt that there'll be another lockdown; the price of those in terms of lost wages, business failures, and the inevitable toll on the mental health of the population is too grim to seriously consider. However, in other areas where things are worse, a full return-to-lockdown is a possibility.
I don't really expect to many places in the U.S. lock down. Nobody can really afford it. We're still dealing with the supply shortages from the lock downs of 2020, and it did indeed take a big wet bite out of many smaller and even some larger businesses.

These United States (all 50 of them) are just not hard wired to be like the more socialist European nations. For those Americans under 65 years of age, we are required to work or suffer the consequences. Our system is just not set up to keep so many people unemployed for so long. There is no safety net like that.

And I'm not getting into whether there should be [a safety net] or not, or a capialism/socialism debate, I'm just saying that here and now, the United States needs to remain open and working, because that's just American culture and we will certainly starve to death if we don't.

We're going to have to find some way to coexist with covid-19 for generations, possibly forever... we can not just "shut everything down" every time we turn around.

It may indeed come down to a culture shift more like that of Asian countries where people often wear mask at the drop of a hat... Good luck getting that to stick here stateside.

No, I'm afraid covid life, and consequently, covid death are just going to become part of the fabric of western culture, like cancer, diabetes, obesity, and other life threatening ailments.

It is what it is...
-Andrea
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Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Having read the more recent comments, I shall refrain from posing questions like "is that so" an old work habit.
I'll indicate that, having gone through, I guess at least the same information avialable via the National Institute for Health library, I could pose many questions. The information there found doesn't correlate in my opinion with what is being told. NB It's my very own conclusion, not based on Q-anon like groups.

As to the wearing of masks and lock downs, yes it's no fun. But if you see that it has effect as number of positive tests, people taken to hospital decreases, I do think it has effect.
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Re: Covid 19

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Gusto10 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:28 am As to the wearing of masks and lock downs, yes it's no fun. But if you see that it has effect as number of positive tests, people taken to hospital decreases, I do think it has effect.
Only if people heed the mandates. Basically the primary reason this thing is out of control today and will be with us for eternity is because us Americans wouldn't cooperate last year.

Hardly anybody actually locked down last year, most of us couldn't, what few could just stayed home from work but then used the free time to go out on the town at what few businesses and other places that remained open, many of us were burning our mask, or otherwise just refusing to wear them. Thus cases exploded nationwide.

Now history repeats itself. There is no need to lock anything down. Nobody is going to listen anyway, and it's just going to start people to rioting.

Really, same goes for the mask.

Darwin is in the driver's seat now... come what may.
-Andrea
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Gusto10
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Coder wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:28 pm I
Here's a good article on Slate about COVID and vaccinated folk:

https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/co ... cases.html
Maybe so good, it can't be reached anymore. (404, page error)

On second try it did work. What is described can be compared with the symptoms of a healthy person that contracted covid.
What misses is the comparison of two people (same sex, age, health) one vaccinated the other not, both the delta variant. What are the symptoms. If both have similar experiences, one can't say that the vaccin provides adequate support.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by rode_kater »

Gusto10 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:05 pm
Coder wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:28 pm Here's a good article on Slate about COVID and vaccinated folk:

https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/co ... cases.html
This reminds me of a moment near the beginning of the pandemic when the initial information was: 90% of cases are mild. And I'm thinking "that doesn't sound bad". Followed by: "mild" means "did not end up in hospital" and I'm like WTF!

From the beginning there were doubts whether a vaccine would help with transmissibility. The story was that the virus can replicate in the throat away from the blood stream and so away from easy access by your immune system. So if Delta replicates so fast chances are vaccination won't help much at all on that front.

But, if vaccines stop you ending up in hospital then it ceases to be the government's problem and it becomes personal responsibility. Influenza is also pretty nasty, but we accept it and continue.

However, for me the situation is more like this:
Image
So I think I'm pretty safe.
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