Covid 19

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crfriend
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Re: Covid 19

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rode_kater wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:42 am
I had not heard this particular lie before, but it's not true.
Thanks for standing up to this Q-Anon nonsense, Rode. Somebody needs to do it, and I just didn't have the energy yesterday.

These damned conspiracy theories are dangerous, and whilst the immediate temptation was to delete the post I full well understand that'd be counterproductive because driving conspiracy theorists underground just puts them into an echo-chamber where their own thoughts get louder.
The amount of [bullsh!t] going around these days is getting ridiculous. Besides the fact the mRNA vaccines are hardly new technology, they've been studied for years..
Right. Humanity is in the middle of an epidemic at the moment, and the way you deal with epidemics is using technology and vaccines. Conspiracy-theory works against both of those.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

crfriend wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:29 am
rode_kater wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:42 am
I had not heard this particular lie before, but it's not true.
Thanks for standing up to this Q-Anon nonsense, Rode. Somebody needs to do it, and I just didn't have the energy yesterday.

These damned conspiracy theories are dangerous, and whilst the immediate temptation was to delete the post I full well understand that'd be counterproductive because driving conspiracy theorists underground just puts them into an echo-chamber where their own thoughts get louder.
The amount of [bullsh!t] going around these days is getting ridiculous. Besides the fact the mRNA vaccines are hardly new technology, they've been studied for years..
Right. Humanity is in the middle of an epidemic at the moment, and the way you deal with epidemics is using technology and vaccines. Conspiracy-theory works against both of those.
All I can conclude is that respectable newssources (i.e. The Lancet and Financial Times v AP) seem to be in disagreement.
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Re: Covid 19

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Gusto10 wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:07 pm
All I can conclude is that respectable newssources (i.e. The Lancet and Financial Times v AP) seem to be in disagreement.
Citations and links, please. A cursory search of articles from the Lancet, which I know well, were fruitless as far as a human-engineered virus go.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

crfriend wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:18 pm
Gusto10 wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:07 pm
All I can conclude is that respectable newssources (i.e. The Lancet and Financial Times v AP) seem to be in disagreement.
Citations and links, please. A cursory search of articles from the Lancet, which I know well, were fruitless as far as a human-engineered virus go.

I have looked into the fascts as presented by USA Today, They use fact finders which, according to their website, are financed by Google et al, Facebook et al, etc. The very same parties finacing the Wuhan research via Daszak. Oranisations as AP are, as was indicated in one of the leading Dutch newspapers (NRC), to be considered as "porte parol".
https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 016-9810-1
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lani ... 9/fulltext
https://www.ft.com/content/7fef48f1-88a ... 0384643b7f
https://in.news.yahoo.com/china-deleted ... 59408.html
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... estigation
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/malad ... 20977.html
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6258639874001
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 1221003647
Just a few of the things I read
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2021/05/29/ee ... s-a4045348 is interesting as a civel servant indicates that the gouvernment pretended to do as if they knew what they were doing, while they had no clue.

https://www.newsweek.com/controversial- ... 0pandemics
For those who understand Italian:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=yo ... 045F749CFF

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/2 ... zer-495717

and maybe a bit of a bombshell:
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/ ... ements.pdf
do check the dates.

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2021/06/2 ... periments/

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/2015 ... /26587505/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7993900/
"Overall, SARS-CoV-2 was remarkably well adapted to humans from its first appearance, yet poorly adapted to bat infection, the natural reservoirs for SARS-r-CoVs, with little evidence for gaining its human adaptation through natural recombination."
"
A novel multibasic furin cleavage site (FCS) confers numerous pathogenetically advantageous capabilities, the existence of which is difficult to explain though natural evolution; SARS-CoV-2 to human ACE2 binding is far stronger than SARS-CoV, yet there is no indication of amount of evolutionary adaptation that SARS-CoV or MERS-CoV underwent. The flat topography of the ganglioside-binding domain (GBD) in the N-terminal domain (NTD) of SARS-CoV-2 does not conform with typical host evasion evolutionary measures exhibited by other human coronaviruses. The combination of binding strength, human and mouse peptide mimicry, as well as high adaptation for human infection and transmission from the earliest strains might suggest the use of humanized mice for the development of SARS-CoV-2 in a laboratory environment."


I do hope that I have now provided suffice information to reject the Q-anon and other questionable or conspiracy ideas.
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Re: Covid 19

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As you will see I have added in my previous additional sources of information for all to read. In the last article of March 25, 2021 the possibility of a natural virus was almost completely dismessed.
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Re: Covid 19

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Gusto10 wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:04 pm
As you will see I have added in my previous additional sources of information for all to read. In the last article of March 25, 2021 the possibility of a natural virus was almost completely dismessed.
That's likely because of data-selectivity. In other words, you're using a cherry-picked echo-chamber in an attempt to reinforce your belief in your opinion.

Dissent:

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/safety ... tudy-finds
https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact ... 9391149002
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... ked-2020-6
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 881150001/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

So, where are the WMD? We didn't find any in Iraq, either.

Enough conspiracy theory!
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

crfriend wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:07 pm
Gusto10 wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:04 pm
As you will see I have added in my previous additional sources of information for all to read. In the last article of March 25, 2021 the possibility of a natural virus was almost completely dismessed.
That's likely because of data-selectivity. In other words, you're using a cherry-picked echo-chamber in an attempt to reinforce your belief in your opinion.

Dissent:

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/safety ... tudy-finds
https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact ... 9391149002
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... ked-2020-6
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 881150001/
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00502-w

So, where are the WMD? We didn't find any in Iraq, either.

Enough conspiracy theory!
To start of with, the articles weren't cherry picked, just at random a few of which I read. I do have the tendency to check and double check and am, contrary to others, open minded for the opinions of others (hear and counter hear, pose questions) due to training and work experience. I'll not dispose of anothers opinion by labeling it to suit my needs. Also qualifing the other "cherry picked" articles as conspiracy without proper argument....
It's interesting to see where in first instance e.g. USATODAY was seen as a proper source, it's now qualified as consiracy source. Time will tell who is right.
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Re: Covid 19

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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Earlier I referred to this article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7993900/

It's is interesting beyond the scope of the question whether or not covid-sars-2 is an engineered virus. It mentions the humanised mouse proteins. These are in essence proteins which you will find also in oncology, like Retuximab (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rituximab) . It works in short as a sort of pacman, like in the game, to "eat" the cells spreading from tumors. It's a gain-of-function not mentioned elsewhere.
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Re: Covid 19

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Gusto10 wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:06 pm
Earlier I referred to this article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7993900/
From the article:
Furthermore, over a year after the initial outbreak in Wuhan, there is still no clear evidence of zoonotic transfer from a bat or intermediate species. Given the immense social and economic impact of this pandemic, identifying the true origin of SARS-CoV-2 is fundamental to preventing future outbreaks. The search for SARS-CoV-2′s origin should include an open and unbiased inquiry into a possible laboratory origin.
I think the single most frustrating thing about the outbreak - when it started - was the reflexive "No, it didn't come from a lab" yet at the same time "we need to gather more data to know where it came from". I'm not saying what it's origins were, but I find it frustrating that we are told to "OBEY, BELIEVE science", yet a gut "no, it wasn't from a lab" is sufficient. Scientists aren't infallible, they make mistakes, and a viral pathogen escaping a lab isn't impossible. It may be highly improbable, it may be a thing of science fiction books... but then so is a global pandemic.

IMHO, it probably doesn't matter - I'd love to know the truth, but if this did escape from a lab, do you think the lab would release the information that would implicate them? Who would be responsible? The country funding the lab? The country hosting the lab? The equipment manufacturer? Not even a single country could address the financial implications of the pandemic across the world. A single person or group could be held responsible, but what then? Public executions? History books with their names written as the instigators? Their net worth could hardly make up for the scope of devastation this virus (and our reaction) wrought on the world.

Do you think knowing would improve safety protocols? I'm 100% sure just the fact there's a small (.000001%?) possibility this could have been an escaped pathogen, labs, manufacturers, and safety organizations will be thinking about this possibility for years to come.

Ultimately the reason we need to know - and need to know the real reason - is to prevent future outbreaks.
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Re: Covid 19

Post by Gusto10 »

Coder wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:46 pm
Gusto10 wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:06 pm
Earlier I referred to this article: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7993900/
From the article:
Furthermore, over a year after the initial outbreak in Wuhan, there is still no clear evidence of zoonotic transfer from a bat or intermediate species. Given the immense social and economic impact of this pandemic, identifying the true origin of SARS-CoV-2 is fundamental to preventing future outbreaks. The search for SARS-CoV-2′s origin should include an open and unbiased inquiry into a possible laboratory origin.
I think the single most frustrating thing about the outbreak - when it started - was the reflexive "No, it didn't come from a lab" yet at the same time "we need to gather more data to know where it came from". I'm not saying what it's origins were, but I find it frustrating that we are told to "OBEY, BELIEVE science", yet a gut "no, it wasn't from a lab" is sufficient. Scientists aren't infallible, they make mistakes, and a viral pathogen escaping a lab isn't impossible. It may be highly improbable, it may be a thing of science fiction books... but then so is a global pandemic.

IMHO, it probably doesn't matter - I'd love to know the truth, but if this did escape from a lab, do you think the lab would release the information that would implicate them? Who would be responsible? The country funding the lab? The country hosting the lab? The equipment manufacturer? Not even a single country could address the financial implications of the pandemic across the world. A single person or group could be held responsible, but what then? Public executions? History books with their names written as the instigators? Their net worth could hardly make up for the scope of devastation this virus (and our reaction) wrought on the world.

Do you think knowing would improve safety protocols? I'm 100% sure just the fact there's a small (.000001%?) possibility this could have been an escaped pathogen, labs, manufacturers, and safety organizations will be thinking about this possibility for years to come.

Ultimately the reason we need to know - and need to know the real reason - is to prevent future outbreaks.
As indicated before, I've been doing quit a bit of reading up on the matter. From what I have read, it's not the first lab leak, SARS was one, Mers also, I even saw polio and a few others mentioned (didn't have time (yet) to check is all out). One thing that is know, is that all files of Dr Shi, the one conducting the experiment, AKA Batlady, were ceased by the Chinese government. Also there is concensus on that the experiments weren't conducted in the BSL-4 labs, the most secure, but in the BSL-2 labs sitting nearby the market were all would have begun. As is indicated in the article, the virus is altered probably by means of humanised mice.... there is no direct link between covid and virusses carried by the bats.... etc.

My gutfeeling is that we don't know s..t about the virus. I do think we have to be darn carefull and respect the physical distances, working from home etc. even when such is not requires by the officials. We have to bear in mind that ven vaccinated one can be contagious, but the common feeling, or at least what is indicated by officials, is that if you are touched by Covid when vaccinated you will not become so ill as when not vaccinated.

At this very moment there imho to many unanswered questions, also with the lasted on the new mutation of Peru. Will the present vaccins cope with new/unknown mutations, how many times do we need to be vaccinated. I do think we can agree on the fact that we will be confronted with covid for many years decades save its origin. With unpredictable mutations.

Another question is in what extend has the Neurenberg treaty been breached by the scientists involved?

I wouldn't be surprised if the consequences of this virus and its strains, will realise in a very short period what all enviromentalists want to achieve in 30 years or more.
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Re: Covid 19

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We also never landed on the moon, and HIV was also a lab-escape that was released by the CIA (or the KGB; pick one) once it was understood that it'd be too virulent to serve as a decent treatment for organ-transplant patients. For that matter, one could assume that every "new" pathogen since small-pox has escaped from a clandestine lab somewhere.

For all the hyperbole, hype, and fear-mongering I've not yet heard so much as a single justification for the creation of the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen.
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Re: Covid 19

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crfriend wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:54 pm
We also never landed on the moon, and HIV was also a lab-escape that was released by the CIA (or the KGB; pick one) once it was understood that it'd be too virulent to serve as a decent treatment for organ-transplant patients. For that matter, one could assume that every "new" pathogen since small-pox has escaped from a clandestine lab somewhere.
But I'm not (well, not sure about others) am claiming any of that nonsense - I'm just saying they haven't conclusively proven *where* this particular strain has come from. It's too early to rule out that particular lab because it was researching coronaviruses. It takes so long for research and investigations to be done, there is no way they could conclusively prove it wasn't from the lab in the short amount of time they spent checking it out. Especially since one of the people denouncing the lab theory has links to the lab. That's all - not claiming a gov't conspiracy, just plain "oh shoot that pathogen escaped let's cover our rear ends". Although Ebola is a vastly different disease, they generally can pinpoint where it originates from in the various outbreaks. We know the region COVID came from, but perhaps because it's respiratory we can't pinpoint it further.
crfriend wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:54 pm
For all the hyperbole, hype, and fear-mongering I've not yet heard so much as a single justification for the creation of the SARS-CoV-2 pathogen.
I think the general vibe I've picked up is that people are concerned scientists are doing dangerous research, unchecked or at the behest of gov't. That seems like a bunch of bunk - I'm sure what they are doing is highly regulated and there would be (legitimate) whistleblowers if they were doing dangerous research recklessly. As for what they were doing - who knows. I haven't read much about "gain of function" research to understand its purpose or why it would be done - but scientists have developed therapies around viruses - and scientists are always on the lookout for novel specimens be they plant or microbial life to better understand what makes us tick or to develop new therapies. There doesn't have to be an evil or scary reason why this was in a lab. It could have been a sample collected from a bat and it was improperly handled.

IMHO I'm not losing sleep over this, and even stopped reading up on COVID as of late (mainly I check up on the variants, and vaccination counts for my state). It just bugs me that people can't even question the official story (even when there isn't a official consensus yet).
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Re: Covid 19

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I think the general vibe I've picked up is that people are concerned scientists are doing dangerous research, unchecked or at the behest of gov't. That seems like a bunch of bunk - I'm sure what they are doing is highly regulated and there would be (legitimate) whistleblowers if they were doing dangerous research recklessly. As for what they were doing - who knows. I haven't read much about "gain of function" research to understand its purpose or why it would be done - but scientists have developed therapies around viruses - and scientists are always on the lookout for novel specimens be they plant or microbial life to better understand what makes us tick or to develop new therapies. There doesn't have to be an evil or scary reason why this was in a lab. It could have been a sample collected from a bat and it was improperly handled.

IMHO I'm not losing sleep over this, and even stopped reading up on COVID as of late (mainly I check up on the variants, and vaccination counts for my state). It just bugs me that people can't even question the official story (even when there isn't a official consensus yet).
Totally agree. How about this. Instead of looking for a reason why "anyone" would create this, how about reasons why they wouldn't.
Last edited by Uncle Al on Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quoting format
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Re: Covid 19

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Been feeling really tired the past couple of days but then I have been putting extra hours at the store which is really, really busy what with the start of our sale and the easing of lockdown. This morning I woke up with decidedly flu-like symptoms. I took a COVID test which fortunately was negative. The symptoms have since eased off. Good to go now.

As for the origin of the virus, it's academic, I suppose. Let others worry about that. I have much more immediate concerns of my own.
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