Covid 19
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Re: Covid 19
Prove it. Otherwise, your view is as irrationally flawed as the supposition in the preceding post.
Prove it.
Prove it.
- moonshadow
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Re: Covid 19
What gets me is one day we have a handful of cases (literally less than 20 nationwide) and the following week, the John Hopkins map looked like the virus literally peppered itself all over the place, many infections were of patients that had no exposure to infected people.
I have to admit, I can't rule out foul play. Couple that with the fact that China basically eliminated the virus within a few months, while the rest of the world grappled with it.
The thing is, I'm not sure it was China. A part of me believes this was a more domestic sinister attack. The U.S. government had proven in years past that it will exterminate its own citizens, and there are countless political agendas that could benefit from a pandemic such as this.
This is another reason I am refusing to vote henceforth, I honestly just don't know who the good guys are anymore. There is no more voting for the "lesser of two evils", Democrats and Republicans seem to be evil in equal measure.
I have to admit, I can't rule out foul play. Couple that with the fact that China basically eliminated the virus within a few months, while the rest of the world grappled with it.
The thing is, I'm not sure it was China. A part of me believes this was a more domestic sinister attack. The U.S. government had proven in years past that it will exterminate its own citizens, and there are countless political agendas that could benefit from a pandemic such as this.
This is another reason I am refusing to vote henceforth, I honestly just don't know who the good guys are anymore. There is no more voting for the "lesser of two evils", Democrats and Republicans seem to be evil in equal measure.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
- moonshadow
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Re: Covid 19
That's the problem, nothing can be proven anymore. All we can look for are smoking guns. Whatever caused this covered its tracks pretty well.
How can we say for sure world leaders are getting the same vaccine we are?
How can we say for sure that there weren't operatives spreading this virus around the globe? These people could have already had the *real* vaccine, and spreading it would be as simple as spraying a little mist in crowded places.
We really don't know. But I do know that the people who rule this world couldn't care less for people like us, the common folk. Don't get me wrong, the previous administration was no better. They're all in on it.
Personally, I hope they all burn in hell. Every world government is as corrupt as the day is long.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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Re: Covid 19
Sorry, Moon. I just don’t buy this.
I’m happy to consider cogent arguments, backed up by a posteriori evidence. I’m less inclined to support conspiracy theories.
People are rubbish at keeping secrets.
As I said, let’s see the proof.
I’m happy to consider cogent arguments, backed up by a posteriori evidence. I’m less inclined to support conspiracy theories.
People are rubbish at keeping secrets.
As I said, let’s see the proof.
- crfriend
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Re: Covid 19
Right -- and this is why the conspiracy theory of the faked moon landings has been disproved dozens of times in the past. People are very, very lazy when it comes to keeping secrets. That's the primary reason I am so fervent in espousing that significant others have full knowledge of sartorial choices at all times. It just makes life easier because one does not have to maintain a lie.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.As I said, let’s see the proof.
As far as the number of cases wandering around inexplicably, we can look at the testing rates -- which likely have dropped in recent weeks, leading directly to this sort of result. There are a lot of factors in play here, and we need to keep them all in mind when forming opinions and hypotheses.
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- moonshadow
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Re: Covid 19
Naw... there's just too much that doesn't stack up... 2020 we had cases spiking out of control despite countless shutdowns and various health mandates... fast forward to the present day, shutdowns are largely over, few people are heeding health mandates and are starting to gather again.
All this and we are no where near "herd immunity" yet cases are plummeting...
It just doesn't add up.
As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong) but nobody involved with this thread is, or has ever been in the company of the major powers that be. We only hear what the media outlets choose to tell us, and the media outlets only hear what the major powers allow them to hear.
I might be wrong, but I don't trust them [the system]. Covid-19 is becoming a thing of the past. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see it go, but the only thing I've seen change is the administration of the country, and the population worn down with "pandemic fatigue", and I'm sorry, viruses don't just cease to exist because we're tired of dealing with them.
There is no possible way I could prove anything, and if I ever came close, I'm sure I'd wind up dead, only after they tarnished my name in some grotesque sex scandal or something along that line.
Nothing about this virus, or our systems response to it has made any sense, and seems to defy logic.
There is no right answer here. I believe our system if government is extremely corrupt, and there are plenty of records to back this up. Yet the people need to be governed because let's face it, society is just too stupid to self govern.
I'm just glad I've thus far squeaked through this mess unscathed. I pity the poor souls that I feel became the victim of an elitist chess game.
All this and we are no where near "herd immunity" yet cases are plummeting...
It just doesn't add up.
As far as I'm aware (correct me if I'm wrong) but nobody involved with this thread is, or has ever been in the company of the major powers that be. We only hear what the media outlets choose to tell us, and the media outlets only hear what the major powers allow them to hear.
I might be wrong, but I don't trust them [the system]. Covid-19 is becoming a thing of the past. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see it go, but the only thing I've seen change is the administration of the country, and the population worn down with "pandemic fatigue", and I'm sorry, viruses don't just cease to exist because we're tired of dealing with them.
There is no possible way I could prove anything, and if I ever came close, I'm sure I'd wind up dead, only after they tarnished my name in some grotesque sex scandal or something along that line.
Nothing about this virus, or our systems response to it has made any sense, and seems to defy logic.
There is no right answer here. I believe our system if government is extremely corrupt, and there are plenty of records to back this up. Yet the people need to be governed because let's face it, society is just too stupid to self govern.
I'm just glad I've thus far squeaked through this mess unscathed. I pity the poor souls that I feel became the victim of an elitist chess game.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
- moonshadow
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Re: Covid 19
What can I prove? I'm just a measly piss-ass crossdressing nobody that even the crazies ignore... I can't even get an answer from the local governing body regarding a permitting matter.
Nobody pays attention when I walk in the room.
I just know I currently live in a world where everyone demands I accept that 2+2=5. And I am terrified to see what is behind the doors of the "ministry of truth".
And no I'm not backing Donald Trump. He's one of them, because if he wasn't they would have dealt with him the same way they dealt with Kennedy.
Nobody pays attention when I walk in the room.
I just know I currently live in a world where everyone demands I accept that 2+2=5. And I am terrified to see what is behind the doors of the "ministry of truth".
And no I'm not backing Donald Trump. He's one of them, because if he wasn't they would have dealt with him the same way they dealt with Kennedy.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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Re: Covid 19
Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity or ignorance.
This is the first real pandemic of the modern age and it's turned lots things we thought we knew on their heads. We've collected more information than ever before. This is going produce a lots more research and information about how this all works but we'll only find out in a year or three when all the numbers have been crunched.
But one thing I have seen is the recognition that the R number people talk about is too simple a model (we knew that, but how to improve). It assumes a uniformly mixing population. But we know the real world doesn't work like that, you have certain people who regularly interact with dozens of people per day, and those that just go to an office and home. Mathematically you can describe this as the (IIRC) K number, which describes the distribution of interactions. If you think of human interactions as hubs & spokes, once all the hubs have had it, it becomes much harder for the virus to find new hosts.
(Yes, I like maths. So sue me).
So you can reach a phase where despite the restrictions being less, the cases don't grow as fast. You see here that areas that went well in the first waves get it anyway in the later waves, despite all the restrictions. Maybe it's just dumb luck the "hubs" there didn't get infected the first time around.
Problem is, we don't actually know much. The R numbers are estimates, we don't have good models of how humans interact in society, or how different groups interact. We don't know how to identify the "hubs", let alone know what to do with that information.
And as epidemiologists says: if you've seen one pandemic, you've seen one pandemic. The next one will be completely different. One upside, if you want to research on this now there's funding, Five years ago you'd just get doors slammed in your face.
This is the first real pandemic of the modern age and it's turned lots things we thought we knew on their heads. We've collected more information than ever before. This is going produce a lots more research and information about how this all works but we'll only find out in a year or three when all the numbers have been crunched.
But one thing I have seen is the recognition that the R number people talk about is too simple a model (we knew that, but how to improve). It assumes a uniformly mixing population. But we know the real world doesn't work like that, you have certain people who regularly interact with dozens of people per day, and those that just go to an office and home. Mathematically you can describe this as the (IIRC) K number, which describes the distribution of interactions. If you think of human interactions as hubs & spokes, once all the hubs have had it, it becomes much harder for the virus to find new hosts.
(Yes, I like maths. So sue me).
So you can reach a phase where despite the restrictions being less, the cases don't grow as fast. You see here that areas that went well in the first waves get it anyway in the later waves, despite all the restrictions. Maybe it's just dumb luck the "hubs" there didn't get infected the first time around.
Problem is, we don't actually know much. The R numbers are estimates, we don't have good models of how humans interact in society, or how different groups interact. We don't know how to identify the "hubs", let alone know what to do with that information.
And as epidemiologists says: if you've seen one pandemic, you've seen one pandemic. The next one will be completely different. One upside, if you want to research on this now there's funding, Five years ago you'd just get doors slammed in your face.
Re: Covid 19
Based on the information available and the US legal system - circumstantial evidence - one may conclude that some scientist took risk and worked on prohibited projects. Mrs Shis, Batwoman, learned the trick in the US and continued with US grants in China. Based on the old world legal system, full, prove has to be provided, thus anly if the original files of the batwoman are made available, one can draw final conclusions. The tricky thing is that those who went to China on behalf of the WHO were involved with the experiments earlier.
The essence of the experiment was infecting the lungs of huminized mice with the virus for which there was no vaccin and of which was known extremely dangerous.
The bats were living at a distance of 150km's from Wuhan, their radius of acivity max 50km's and they couldn't be infected with the virus which presumably was theirs to start of with.
- crfriend
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Re: Covid 19
There is still no motive apparent, and without motive it is difficult to have a crime.
Too, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Please provide it, along with links to reputable sources. Until there is decent transparency and evidence it remains squarely within the realm of conspiracy theory.
If this is a product of the hand of man, also provide the reasoning behind it.
Too, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Please provide it, along with links to reputable sources. Until there is decent transparency and evidence it remains squarely within the realm of conspiracy theory.
If this is a product of the hand of man, also provide the reasoning behind it.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
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Re: Covid 19
The idea of this being man-made or at least caused by man is exciting, novel-worthy (then again, so is a more mundane origin, but less exciting for most people unless someone with the skill of, say, Michael Crichton writes about it).
I also look at diseases we try to eradicate, or find cures for - and progress is SLOW. Is it really feasible that we have the skill and brains to develop a perfect virus - something that will bend to our will?
So I’m skeptical. I figure it was either experiments gone wrong / escaped pathogen or it just developed in the wild (or maybe a combination of both).
I feel if this were intended to reduce the population, well I think it would be slightly more deadly, with a longer incubation time.
Let’s also think about what would would happen if huge swaths of the population died off - the rich people would have less worker bees to keep things humming along, less dr’s to keep them healthy. True there are a lot of people out there who don’t “contribute to society”, but everyone servers a purpose. Modern life would break down and we’d likely revert to lower quality of life in many instances.
None of this, of course, means much to those at the top except they would also suffer to some extent from degradation normal life. And as I said, a virus will kill indiscriminately - research that continues to this day would be forever slowed down just from lack of people.
These are just my thoughts, not sure they add much to the discussion.
I also look at diseases we try to eradicate, or find cures for - and progress is SLOW. Is it really feasible that we have the skill and brains to develop a perfect virus - something that will bend to our will?
So I’m skeptical. I figure it was either experiments gone wrong / escaped pathogen or it just developed in the wild (or maybe a combination of both).
I feel if this were intended to reduce the population, well I think it would be slightly more deadly, with a longer incubation time.
Let’s also think about what would would happen if huge swaths of the population died off - the rich people would have less worker bees to keep things humming along, less dr’s to keep them healthy. True there are a lot of people out there who don’t “contribute to society”, but everyone servers a purpose. Modern life would break down and we’d likely revert to lower quality of life in many instances.
None of this, of course, means much to those at the top except they would also suffer to some extent from degradation normal life. And as I said, a virus will kill indiscriminately - research that continues to this day would be forever slowed down just from lack of people.
These are just my thoughts, not sure they add much to the discussion.
Re: Covid 19
My guess, the resoning behind it was: "we can thus we will". The gain-of-function was prohibited but virologists pushed to get permission to be able to do so.
- crfriend
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Re: Covid 19
If that is the case then we're dealing with madmen who need to be sought out and removed from the population as a danger to humanity.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
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Re: Covid 19
Moon I agree with you fully. The only proof that I know of is that our own government has admitted experimenting on it's citizens. All on has to do is look at our treatment of Native Americans, The Tuskegee Airmen (this secret was kept for decades!), Fluoride in our water, CIA experiments at Harvard. etc.moonshadow wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 11:30 pm What can I prove? I'm just a measly piss-ass crossdressing nobody that even the crazies ignore... I can't even get an answer from the local governing body regarding a permitting matter.
Nobody pays attention when I walk in the room.
I just know I currently live in a world where everyone demands I accept that 2+2=5. And I am terrified to see what is behind the doors of the "ministry of truth".
And no I'm not backing Donald Trump. He's one of them, because if he wasn't they would have dealt with him the same way they dealt with Kennedy.
Trusting the government is foolish at best in my opinion.
- moonshadow
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Re: Covid 19
The FACTS about covid-19 will be revealed in about 30 years, once everyone has moved on and it's distant history, and someone accidentally declassifies or stumbles upon the wrong [or right] documents...Freedomforall wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 3:17 pmMoon I agree with you fully. The only proof that I know of is that our own government has admitted experimenting on it's citizens. All on has to do is look at our treatment of Native Americans, The Tuskegee Airmen (this secret was kept for decades!), Fluoride in our water, CIA experiments at Harvard. etc.moonshadow wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 11:30 pm What can I prove? I'm just a measly piss-ass crossdressing nobody that even the crazies ignore... I can't even get an answer from the local governing body regarding a permitting matter.
Nobody pays attention when I walk in the room.
I just know I currently live in a world where everyone demands I accept that 2+2=5. And I am terrified to see what is behind the doors of the "ministry of truth".
And no I'm not backing Donald Trump. He's one of them, because if he wasn't they would have dealt with him the same way they dealt with Kennedy.
Trusting the government is foolish at best in my opinion.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.