What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

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crfriend
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by crfriend »

Jim wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:31 am
Donald Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, which has the sole power of impeachment, while he was in office. The trial by the Senate is not moot because of the penalty to bar future holding of office.
Correct. The impeachment happened when Donald Trump was still in office, and therefore valid. The trial should now move ahead in accordance with the Constitution. A "conviction" (a 2/3rds vote of the senate as "Guilty") would remove him from office; he's already out because his term has Constitutionally expired, so that would have no immediate effect save for the second portion of the trial which determines, by a simple majority, whether to permanently bar Trump from holding Federal office again.

As it looks at the moment, the Senate is setting up to set a very unwise and dangerous precedent -- that of making it tacitly legal for a sitting president in the waning days of power to essentially have carte-blanche on his behaviour. The senate, in essence, will condone and further authorise future uprisings, riots, and mayhem at the hand of the president of the United States. Whither the rule of law? That's dangerous. Full stop.
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by rode_kater »

moonshadow wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:41 am
So let the damned thing burn.
A few years ago some (not all obviously) people in the UK voted for Brexit because they wanted to see the elite get kicked. "Let it burn" they said. Here we are a few years later and the elite is still there but it's not any better.

Do not underestimate how bad things can become without actually solving any of the basic problems.

What I'm saying is that it's a super risky strategy and history doesn't have many examples of where "let it burn" actually worked. It would be better if the US spent some time on constitutional reform. There is a process to make amendments to the constitution, use it.
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by moonshadow »

Do realize my last couple remarks where somewhat tongue in cheek. Even if I were literally serious, take comfort, the world does not operate on my whims. In fact, virtually nobody really takes me seriously anyway.

So anyway, I've about run my course with this discussion, so I'm pulling the cord and getting off this bus here, and will return to more positive discussions later.

A parting word, the sooner the Senate aquitts, the better, and we can move on. Hopefully this won't get much fanfare as we all know the outcome already. Hell, I knew the outcome back when they first started talking about it.
crfriend wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:59 pm
As it looks at the moment, the Senate is setting up to set a very unwise and dangerous precedent -- that of making it tacitly legal for a sitting president in the waning days of power to essentially have carte-blanche on his behaviour.
No... just Trump and anyone else who is loyal to his name. Everyone else will have to play by the rules. :P

Watch and see.

Later taters!
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by Sinned »

It just goes to show how brain-washed some folks can get when they just can't see that the impeachment and "trial" are perfectly legal and still maintain that it isn't. A symdrome called "Trumpitis" in which a person believes in incorrect facts and vociferously maintains those untruths that are contrary to logic and the proven. In some respects there's no hope. I side with Carl in that the Senate is on course to set a dangerous precedent if they don't convict Trump. It would appear then that the president becomes literally "above the law" and can do what the hell he likes. Just what does a sitting president have to do to get impeached? If he can commit sedition [0] and get off what's the next stage - a successful sedition? I have defined sedition and it applies to Trump on all counts. Incidentally he was also guilty of insurrection [1] and treason [2]. So I repeat, what does a sitting president have to do to get impeached and successfully prosecuted if he can be guilty of insurrection, sedition and treason?

[0] It is sedition by definition: 1.conspire to overthrow, put down, or destroy by force or wage war against the government. 2. forcefully oppose government authority, preventing, hindering or delaying the execution of any law of the U.S.. 3. seize, take, or possess any U.S. property contrary to its laws.
[1] Insurrection are the acts of violence against the state and officers
[2] Treason is the violation of allegiance to the U.S. by betraying or aiding the country's enemies. That the enemies are citizens of the country is a moot point.

As an aside just to bring this discussion to today's events concerning this little isle to prove that all is not well here either. We are now at "war" with the EU now! Here on this little isle at the outbreak of this virus our government linked Oxford University with AstraZenica to develop a vaccine. They were successful and our government placed an order for 100 million doses before the vaccine had even been fully tested or authorised for use, gambling on success. The EU, being a bureaucratic organisation dithered and went through their procedures and placed their order with AZ 3 months later than us. AZ set up a production facilities in Belgium to service the EU's. Now our production plants in England have been through the niggles and are now churning our millions of vials for our use. Now, because the EU is behind the curve in the vaccination programme are demanding that we hand over part of the vaccine produced here for their use and are threatening trade wars if we don't do so. AZ are saying that production in Belgium is getting up to full production but is not there yet and they will fulfil the EU's order as they can produce the vaccine. Now we see one reason why we came out of the EU. Contrary to what they say when the sh*t hits the fan it's every country for themselves and they will "bully" anyone who disagrees. Don't forget AZ are producing the vaccine profit free.

Latest update. Nicola Sturgeon in her anti-England role is threatening to release details of the UK's supplies to the EU. Well, my take on this is that she should let the EU have part of the consignment of vaccine that is scheduled for Scotland. If she's so EU friendly then that would be a neighbourly thing to do wouldn't it? Then we'll see how long her populace supports her.
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by Gusto10 »

crfriend wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:59 pm
Jim wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:31 am
Donald Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives, which has the sole power of impeachment, while he was in office. The trial by the Senate is not moot because of the penalty to bar future holding of office.
Correct. The impeachment happened when Donald Trump was still in office, and therefore valid. The trial should now move ahead in accordance with the Constitution. A "conviction" (a 2/3rds vote of the senate as "Guilty") would remove him from office; he's already out because his term has Constitutionally expired, so that would have no immediate effect save for the second portion of the trial which determines, by a simple majority, whether to permanently bar Trump from holding Federal office again.

As it looks at the moment, the Senate is setting up to set a very unwise and dangerous precedent -- that of making it tacitly legal for a sitting president in the waning days of power to essentially have carte-blanche on his behaviour. The senate, in essence, will condone and further authorise future uprisings, riots, and mayhem at the hand of the president of the United States. Whither the rule of law? That's dangerous. Full stop.
Maybe it won't be a dangerous precedent as indicated bearing in mind the cases Humphreys (1907) and Archibald (1936).
Further as matter of interest:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ed-to-know

https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/ ... ation.html

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/r/r44260

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitutio ... mpeachment
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by Gusto10 »

Eeven if 1% is true of what written here:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... y-new-book
than such would be a major problem.
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by rode_kater »

Sinned wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:21 pm
As an aside just to bring this discussion to today's events concerning this little isle to prove that all is not well here either. We are now at "war" with the EU now!
A note from the other side of the channel: there is indeed a dispute between the EU and AZ about vaccines. It certainly seems that AZ said that they would deliver from UK production sites while apparently also promising those exclusively to the UK, so it looks like they double-sold production capacity. Then they have production problems and the **** hits the fan. It's claimed that the UK was supplied from the EU in December, but the facts have not all yet been established. In any case, it's not a dispute involving the UK.

What is fascinating is that in the UK it's massive news, people talking about it all day. The EU Commission made some missteps which drove UK newspapers into a higher frenzy. Somehow, the UK is trying to make it all about them, which it really isn't. Over here it's basically just another disappointment. It rated page 6 in the paper today.

I would recommend steering clear of UK newspapers for reporting about this. Unusually, the US news is actually fairly sane on this topic, like here.

And remember, this isn't over until everyone worldwide is vaccinated. If you leave it going in 3rd world countries we'll get regular mutations which will not be covered by existing vaccines and we can do it all again. This isn't over by a long shot.
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by Gusto10 »

rode_kater wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:54 pm
Sinned wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:21 pm
As an aside just to bring this discussion to today's events concerning this little isle to prove that all is not well here either. We are now at "war" with the EU now!
A note from the other side of the channel: there is indeed a dispute between the EU and AZ about vaccines. It certainly seems that AZ said that they would deliver from UK production sites while apparently also promising those exclusively to the UK, so it looks like they double-sold production capacity. Then they have production problems and the **** hits the fan. It's claimed that the UK was supplied from the EU in December, but the facts have not all yet been established. In any case, it's not a dispute involving the UK.

What is fascinating is that in the UK it's massive news, people talking about it all day. The EU Commission made some missteps which drove UK newspapers into a higher frenzy. Somehow, the UK is trying to make it all about them, which it really isn't. Over here it's basically just another disappointment. It rated page 6 in the paper today.

I would recommend steering clear of UK newspapers for reporting about this. Unusually, the US news is actually fairly sane on this topic, like here.

And remember, this isn't over until everyone worldwide is vaccinated. If you leave it going in 3rd world countries we'll get regular mutations which will not be covered by existing vaccines and we can do it all again. This isn't over by a long shot.
Eventhough the discussion concerning Covid, might be conducted better in a seperate thread, a small remark.

It's nit just in the 3rd world, for as far as it still exists, that mutations of the covid virus take place, also in Europe. The Britisch variant is known, the Marseille-4 has just been made knwon. In Iceland a lab which investigated the virus discovered some 465 variations.

Now back to the Trumped up business.
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by moonshadow »

From the article wrote:First, Trump would declare martial law, then the Democrats (and some Republicans) and the Hollywood celebrities in Washington, DC for the inauguration would be rounded up and arrested. Trump had "opened back up Guantanamo Bay" (it never closed) and "increased the capacity to 200,000."
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:07 pm
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This is what happens when people willingly turn off their BS detectors -- and there's been a whole lot of work being done in the past decades to drive people to do just that. And the vultures are coming home to roost.
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:42 pm
moonshadow wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:07 pm
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This is what happens when people willingly turn off their BS detectors -- and there's been a whole lot of work being done in the past decades to drive people to do just that. And the vultures are coming home to roost.
It seems we [they] are just a few short steps from advocating throwing "liberals" into concentration camps! :shock:

Man... we are mighty close to the edge!

I am absolutely blown away that there are actually Americans that support this!
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Re: What a Stalin Quote About Rigging Elections Reveals About the 2020 Election

Post by r.m.anderson »

Yup and then there is this Bridge in one of the eastern colony states that is always for sale at a bargain to boot !

AND watch out for that pillow salesman - he is selling more than a good nights rest with pillows !

Also don't forget the Representative that has had one too many Kool Aid drinks - intoxicating propaganda !

A shame that a few on the right side of the ship are having a hard time righting the direction away from the collision violation of Oath of Office !
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WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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