Annoyed

[crfriend]

Carl, you seem to have lost your logical consistency here: To follow the Oligarch line that they control the outcomes regardless of candidates is something I too have preached for years; but that also implies that the elected "cheerleader" has some real power -- they do not -- George B could no more have made real systemic changes than you or I. Obama, and the few others that were not fully clued in at the onset tried -- and were quickly informed of their limits, lest they wanted to suffer grievous harm to self or family.

Of note is that my current opinion was not completely formed in the early '80s -- that took some time to me to ferret out the thread of what was going on. I wasn't fully latched on the matter until around 2010 or so. I spent quite a bit of time trying to work out what was going on in the middle of a vacuum of accurate information.

The parties and players do have some latitude to play with the window dressing, and that has been where most of us commoners have found some comfort, but forget about the Congress making any real differences -- as you said, the Oligarchs called the game before it started.

Indeed that is now my stance, and the model stands up well as a predictor of what is to come -- and it does not please me one whit.

[Freedomforall]

I am neither for nor against masks. I do have some things to consider. We are all dealing with information that we are given. We process things based on our beliefs and therefore seek out that which will confirm or deny our beliefs. None of us truly knows the exact pathology of Covid, with the exception of the creators and even that is debatable. Sadly Covid has been politicized and yet another weapon to divide us all.

In our area there are many billboards advertising messages about wearing masks. The majority of the ones say you "don't care if you don't wear a mask". This is "all or nothing thinking". There are people who simply have trouble breathing. I for one do because of a birth defect that required over 20 surgeries. However, I wear the mask. What about people that cannot? "Stay home", you say. What if they cannot?


1. For those saying we need a mandatory mask mandate: Who should enforce this and how?
2. For any of us that have had training in PPE, (personal protective equipment) have you observed many people that wear masks?

If one spends time watching people that wear masks, it will enlighten you to observe it with the following in mind. Watch how many different surfaces are touched by anyone whether they are wearing a mask or not. Think of all this while imagining germs from Covid being everywhere. Cross contamination is rampant. People are constantly touching their masks and then putting their hands everywhere. I even saw one lady with latex gloves on. She rummaged through her purse; talked on her cell phone; grocery shopped; and then drove away in her car wearing the same gloves. Some people have allergies to latex. What if the cashier that checks you out has a latex allergy and you do not know it? My point is this, whether it is Covid or the next pandemic, we could be in serious jeopardy if the next one is extremely contagious.

Here is an article from The New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmp2006372

Video on germs spreading

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5-dI74zxPg

[crfriend]

My point is this, whether it is Covid or the next pandemic, we could be in serious jeopardy if the next one is extremely contagious.

Life itself is tenuous, and we were already well overdue for what's visiting us now. And it's only a matter of time before something crops up that's even more lethal than this one. This is one of the ways that extinctions happen, and it's worth recalling that extinction is the rule not the exception on Earth -- and homo sapiens are not above that rule. It's only a matter of time.

Furthermore, there's the trade-off between perceived safety and the prolonged state of mental health among the population. Isolation is poisonous to humans because we are social animals. Cut us off from others of our species and we get into dire straits pretty quickly. There seem to be no data on the mental health aspect of the population, although a look at suicide rates could be a reasonable barometer. We can deal, for a while, with the 6-foot rule; however, cut off from the human touch will begin to get corrosive over time when even handshakes are verboten, nevermind the comforting power of a good hug.

Worst of all in the United States has been the utter discrediting of science and professional experience in dealing with this matter. I gave up even listening to US internal sources -- and certainly coming from the "media" -- at the moment they started to get politicised, and instead waited until good data started filtering in from Europe.

Here is an article from The New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmp2006372

There's also this: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2029812 which is close to unparalleled in the history of that august journal.

[Freedomforall]

I vehemently concur!

[moonshadow]

The point being, if we could have buckled down for a few weeks back in the early spring, this would have been a distant memory by now...

And Al, Dan, and Fred would be happy in this universe because Trump would likely have won, as the economy would be strong as ever, he beat the impeachment, and he'd have the covid-19 virus conquered!

Oh sure some would still complain about him, but he would have won in a landslide victory, and would have likely gone down as one of the greatest presidents of the century!

Cause and effect, for every action, there is a reaction... gheeze, doesn't anyone remember the fable of the grasshopper and the ant?

There is a time for everything, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure....

Trump had the potential to lead, he had the potential to do great things, he had the potential to make this nation really soar, but he blew it with that mouth of his....

Yes, a hard two to three week sacrifice would have nailed this thing. Rather we drew it out like a blade, twisting it along the way.

We are all adults, yet we acted like spoiled bratty children, and now we will pay the price.

[Sinned]

I was watching a programme called "America's Book of Secrets" and the main thrust was about billionaires and how they acted. They were shown to think and act differently to us monkeys and that they thought of themselves as "owners of the planet", with little recourse to others, and we "merely lived on it". It effectively confirmed what you all have been saying about oligarchs and an elite running things behind the scenes.

[Freedomforall]

I was watching a programme called "America's Book of Secrets" and the main thrust was about billionaires and how they acted. They were shown to think and act differently to us monkeys and that they thought of themselves as "owners of the planet", with little recourse to others, and we "merely lived on it". It effectively confirmed what you all have been saying about oligarchs and an elite running things behind the scenes.

I watched an interview with Bill Gates and his wife Melinda. I can see the attitude you are talking about in Bill. Bill and Melinda both have an eerie smile at one point when Bill says, "The next pandemic will get a lot more attention."

[Freedomforall]

I really do not think Covid will ever go away. I think it will be around for quite a while. It has forever changing many businesses and the modality in which they do business. I think this is something that we are going to have to live with, until the media finds their next obsession!

[Faldaguy]

by Freedomforall » Sat Dec 05, 2020 7:17 pm

I really do not think Covid will ever go away. I think it will be around for quite a while. It has forever changing many businesses and the modality in which they do business. I think this is something that we are going to have to live with, until the media finds their next obsession!

I was reading reporting today that the number of people catching CV-19 more than once is growing rapidly; suggesting we do not develop an immunity to it, or it is short lived. Makes one wonder if the vaccines will instill anything more lasting.

Add to that, the present pre-purchased supply by the "wealthy" countries and distribution realities have authorities predicting we won't be able to get to herd immunity levels until 2024 or 25. Indeed this may be a 'world-changing' virus.

An interesting suggestion by one ex-presidential candidate for the US where anti-vaxers are growing; give those who get vaccinated $1500.00 to incentivize folks.