A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

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Ray
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Ray »

Brad’s response is still the best one.

An answer along the lines of “yes but look at the other guys“ isn’t really an answer. I want to know what Trump voters saw in Donald Trump to vote for him again, or for the first time, in 2020. While I don’t agree with all of his comments (especially climate change), Brad’s response was the most lucid and well articulated of any of the responses seen so far.I would invite all Republican supporters to follow his example and add to the pool of knowledge created to date.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by PatJ »

I agree.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

I concur Brad's post pretty much sums up much of the sentiment in my locale.

I will add one however,

The Democratic party will NEVER carry any Appalachian state or area until they drop this obsession with allowing abortion. 'Round here, they've got a very popular name for Democrats, they're called "baby killers".

As for my opinion on abortion, it's difficult for me to say, I can see both sides of the argument, but I'm just saying, that stigma is holding your party down around here [in Appalachia].

Drop the abortion issue, you've got nothing to lose! I mean, where are pro-choicers going to turn?? The Republicans?? :rofl: We've got bigger fish to fry at the moment....
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

And I'll add another one,

Locals here feel left out by the Democratic party, the party that used to be "pro-coal" seems damned opposed to it today. What's more interesting is a recent editorial I read authored by the Roanoke Times that seemed to indicate that it is actually local Republicans that are trying desperately to bring any industry they can into the southwest Virginia coal fields, including renewable. Yet state level democrats seem to completely ignore this part of the state. Take note that the Roanoke Times is a slightly left leaning paper!

The article:

https://heraldcourier.com/opinion/their ... a95c9.html


Simply put, with both the state house chambers and the governor being blue, they've pretty much got their nose deep up Northern Virginia's ass, they don't care about us down here.

They slap us with this mandated $15 minimum wage, without giving any thought to small businesses along the Tennessee and Kentucky borders that are competing with $7.35. I heard when the Smyth County economic director raised concerns about this, they [the Democratic state legislators] basically blew her off.

Quite frankly locals are fed up with "P.C." (politically correct) too. They're tired of "cancel culture", they're tired of being told they're not allowed to say certain things, they're tired of feeling like they can't share a raunchy joke, while at the same time the Democratic party looks the other way while they show videos on T.V. of thugs smashing out windows, looting and rioting all the while those same "leaders" seek to defend police departments.

Believe it or not, most people around my area are "liberal", trust me.... they are VERY open minded! There are gays and lesbians everywhere, and even the transgender community is gaining general acceptance (outside of the extreme religious crowd). Churches are struggling here too, so this area is more progressive that other parts of the country give us credit for. Blacks aren't being mistreated around here, many hold fine upstanding jobs, and are positive contributors to their community. Interracial relationships are common, nobody seems to mind. Bristol Virginia overwhelmingly voted in the Hard Rock casino in a referendum, whenever liquor by the drink is proposed, it always has wide support. Even New Age, and witchcraft shops are tolerated, one in Kingsport has been in business since the 1980s. They don't care if you want to fly a LGBTQ flag on your porch, just don't tell them they can't fly the stars and bars. Personally, I'd like to see the confederate statues GO... but because the locals WANT them gone, not because they're being forced down by an out of town left wing mob.

But let's face it, we're mostly poor white trash around here, and the Democratic party just doesn't seem like they give a damn about us.

Trump appealed to these grievances in 2016, and that's why he won, and he came damn close again in 2020.

I started to cast my vote for Trump myself, mainly because I figured he'd lose the national anyway, but I was actually rooting for him to carry Virginia, mainly to send a STRONG message to the Virginia State legislature, that message being "WATCH IT... you're on THIN ICE!"

Many of Trumps policies I actually approved of, even ones early on that didn't get support from other Republicans (like the food box in place of food stamps), I also agreed with his strategy in tariffs with China, as increasing the cost of imports is probably the only viable way to force those jobs back home again in a free market system.

Trump wasn't so much a bad policy guy, he was just an asshole, and I really despised his rhetoric and his pandering to the extreme Christian faaaaaaaar right, it struck me as being very authoritarian, and similar to the taliban of the middle east. Different religion, same playbook.

But if it wasn't for that last paragraph, I'd have voted for Trump over Biden in a heart beat.

I don't know who the Republican nominee will be in 2024, but in 2028, if you want to hold power... get a real progressive in there, and don't spit in the face of us poor white mountain trash in the process, and you might just get your landslide victory.

And the fact that I reluctantly submit this is case positive of how bad the "cancel culture" has gotten in this nation. I have made comments here that certain SJW's would have my job if they could.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by oldsalt1 »

Moon please don't consider this a personal attack but just about everything you said was pro republican yet you voted for Biden Why
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

oldsalt1 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:13 am
Moon please don't consider this a personal attack but just about everything you said was pro republican yet you voted for Biden Why
moonshadow wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:06 am
Trump wasn't so much a bad policy guy, he was just an asshole, and I really despised his rhetoric and his pandering to the extreme Christian faaaaaaaar right, it struck me as being very authoritarian, and similar to the taliban of the middle east. Different religion, same playbook.
To elaborate, his tone and style is very divisive. FWIW, I find myself at odds with more leftist [0] than I do conservatives, but they're Americans too, and even they deserve dignity and to be heard.

Now I realize this rhetoric is what made Trump popular, but it just doesn't do it for me... Despite the fact I'm NOT religious, I do have a very high regard for Christ like virtue, tolerance, forgiveness, charity, humility, etc. These are characteristics that I find severely lacking and flat out non-existent with Donald Trump.

[0] Most leftist are not "liberal". At one time I thought leftist were the "liberal" party, when I proudly proclaimed in a room full of them that I was a Libertarian, and suddenly felt the air in the room get very thick....

There is the far left, the far right, and then there are the "moderates", who in practice seem to be the "true liberals". They're the ones that may not agree with what you're saying, but they'll defend to the death your right to say it...

And P.S. I never said who I voted for, but I will say I've never had to hold my nose harder in my life while doing so....
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

Now I did vote for Gade in the Republican senate primary this year. I wasn't sure if he would win, but if he did, I felt he would have been the most sensible of the other Republican candidates. The others were just... "too out there..."

He was running against Mark Warner, the Democratic incumbent. I did vote for Warner, and wasn't ashamed of that. He's a moderate Democrat with some good ideas. I thought he was a good Governor, and I think he's a good Senator. The fact he wasn't ashamed to pose with me, shaking my hand in 2018, whilst I was wearing a skirt didn't hurt either... :wink:

But I'm confident that no matter who might have one that Senators race, we'd have had a good outcome. Both were good people.

Now Tim Kaine... I've got no use for him. Something about him... he just works on my nerves.

I'm not a party line man.... I vote my heart and am loyal to nobody, only to the ideals of liberty and freefom for everyone.

I like politicians that gently nudge their agenda, not act like a proverbial "bull in a china shop"... *looks at Trump*
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

And finally, though I realize this isn't a thread about things we don't like about Trump, I feel compelled to write anyway, that this whole matter with him demonizing any media outlet that carries something critical of him, as well as his absolute refusal to accept these election results is downright childish.

His attempt to sway state legislatures in swing states to cast their electors for him anyway in an attempt to prevent Biden from hitting 270, thus forcing the election to the house is dirty politics, and a flat out danger to our democratic process.

If he succeeds in this (and he may well yet) I'll never vote again. After all, what good is an election if a candidate can pitch a fit, carry on about unproven "fraud" and get a hand picked court to side with that candidate anyway and throw the election in his/her favor?

On the other hand, Trump has really taken this nation to school in these last 12 months particularly. I myself have learned a lot that I didn't realize about out electoral process, in addition to how our government works, including all of its faults that need addressing. Trump did what no other politician could do, he highlighted the weaknesses in our system by poking every single part of our constitution with a stick.

The two generations that will carry this nation (the millenials and gen z) into the 21st century, just got a hands on demonstration of American government the likes of which they would have never gotten in school. Trump exposed a lot of holes that our generations need to work on repairing.

For those reasons, in some ironic way, Trump was a true American hero.

But Dan, a little advice to whomever your party picks to run in '24, and same to the democrats in '28... how about someone that wasn't old enough to vote during the Kennedy administration fir a change??
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oldsalt1
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by oldsalt1 »

yes you are right a younger candidate maybe even a woman hmmmmmm lets see how does IVANKA sound
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:58 am
[...] a little advice to whomever your party picks to run in '24, and same to the democrats in '28... how about someone that wasn't old enough to vote during the Kennedy administration fir a change??
That's long overdue -- and it applies to "both" parties, but it's not likely to happen for any number of reasons.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by pelmut »

moonshadow wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:06 am
... There are gays and lesbians everywhere, and even the transgender community is gaining general acceptance (outside of the extreme religious crowd). Churches are struggling here too...
There is no reason why a church that believes in love and inclusion should struggle - it's the ones that are based on exclusion dressed up as 'brotherhood' and hatred dressed up as 'biblical law' that are (and rightly should be) struggling.
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

oldsalt1 wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:11 pm
yes you are right a younger candidate maybe even a woman hmmmmmm lets see how does IVANKA sound
Hey, I'll hear what she has to say, I skimmed her Twitter feed a while back, and I wasn't put off...
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

pelmut wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:54 pm
moonshadow wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:06 am
... There are gays and lesbians everywhere, and even the transgender community is gaining general acceptance (outside of the extreme religious crowd). Churches are struggling here too...
There is no reason why a church that believes in love and inclusion should struggle - it's the ones that are based on exclusion dressed up as 'brotherhood' and hatred dressed up as 'biblical law' that are (and rightly should be) struggling.
Unfortunately, a good many (at least half) churches around here seem to believe just that... Plus, churches of all stripes seem to be struggling with "identity politics" as they work out what exactly they stand for.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 1:22 pm
moonshadow wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:58 am
[...] a little advice to whomever your party picks to run in '24, and same to the democrats in '28... how about someone that wasn't old enough to vote during the Kennedy administration fir a change??
That's long overdue -- and it applies to "both" parties, but it's not likely to happen for any number of reasons.
Well, thankfully, nobody is immortal. I'd like to think that if I ever hit a hundred years of age, there will at least be a gen Xer at the helm (understanding gen x would be at least 101 by then....)
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Brad »

This has become a lively thread and everyone is showing civility. I feel I dont have a vested interest in who wins. Our constitution with its division of power and various checks and balances ensures that life goes on. So while I may prefer one candidate over another I'm not too concerned about who wins. Which leads me to this idea- why do we hold opinions anyway? Do opinions make us better people? Do we and society benefit from having opinions? And how do we arrive at the opinions we hold? Maybe this should be a separate thread but ill defer to the mods.
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