A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

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Sinned
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Sinned »

With politics nobody wins, everybody loses whoever is in power.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Brad »

Regardless of who wins the election, it's the oligarchs who won.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by crfriend »

Brad wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:44 pm
Regardless of who wins the election, it's the oligarchs who won.
And would have, no matter the outcome of the "election". That's the marvel of modern America -- an election carried out in complete accordance to law and with observers -- all carefully orchestrated to produce a desired outcome.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by r.m.anderson »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:36 am
One of the things I really appreciate about the Skirt Cafe is that by and large the items that are posted here are full-throated, civil and rational. Consequently, I am confident I will get the kind of help regarding public policy issues that I am asking for.

Before I make my ask, I feel some context is called-for.

A number of items that have come out of the recent election strike me as highly significant:
1. In raw numbers, Donald Trump inspired the greatest turnout, for and against, in American history. We also had one of the highest percentages of eligible voters participate.
2. The 4 years since his election has given all Americans of voting age plenty of time to take Trump’s measure.
3. At well over 70 million votes, Mr. Trump garnered the second highest number ever for a US Presidential candidate.
4. Millions of people voted for him despite their disliking his style.
5. Clearly, Donald Trump represents something utterly essential to a large percentage of Americans.

Equally significant are the facts of the outcome. Biden not only garnered 6 million more votes than Trump, he also received the majority of the votes cast. He won at least as many Electoral College votes as Trump did in 2016 and by wider margins. Of the over 3 dozen lawsuits filed by the Trump Campaign or by the Republican Party, all but a very few have been withdrawn or thrown out for lack of evidence. Even if they all had made it to trial and the Republicans had prevailed in every one of them, altogether they would not have changed the outcome. Consequently, I feel I am on firm ground to refer to former Vice President Joseph Biden as the President-elect.

In the President-elect’s Acceptance Speech of November 7, he made a few points that I hope all of us can agree upon:
1. “It’s never a good bet to bet against the United States of America.”
2. “When we’re united, there’s nothing we can’t accomplish.”
3. So, this is the time to focus on what unites us rather than what divides us.
4. It starts by ending the demonization
5. And by taking the time to listen to the concerns of the folks who voted differently than us.

In that vein I am asking those of you who voted for Donald Trump’s reelection to state, as specifically as you can, why you voted for him. What concerns or policies did you feel Trump stood for that Biden didn’t?

I commit to not responding for 2 weeks (Dec. 14) so you have time to give me a complete and full-throated reply. I just ask that you be as specific as you can and refrain from name-calling. When I reply, I will try to explain how the Democratic platform, as I understand it, addresses the concerns you raise.

I further commit that the concerns you raise that I concur with I will pass along to Congressman Blumenauer and to my Senators Merkley and Wyden as bipartisan concerns. Because they’re concerns of citizens of both parties, they should have a decent chance of legislative action.

Fair enough?

Trump supporters, please start contributing.

I commit to not responding for 2 weeks (Dec. 14) so you have time to give me a complete and full-throated reply. I just ask that you be as specific as you can and refrain from name-calling. When I reply, I will try to explain how the Democratic platform, as I understand it, addresses the concerns you raise.


Time has come to mull over comments and address the concerns raised - - - - -
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by denimini »

r.m.anderson wrote:
Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:20 pm

Time has come to mull over comments and address the concerns raised - - - - -
I think the main point was that the author would not interject or respond before 2 weeks time, which has been successfully achieved.
I think that no-one is going to influence anyone with logic and rational thinking on this subject but one can try :)
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by crfriend »

denimini wrote:
Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:12 am
I think that no-one is going to influence anyone with logic and rational thinking on this subject but one can try :)
Like Elvis, rational thought and logic have long since "left the building".

The main thing now is going to be to run the post-mortem to see if anybody can figure out what the Hell went wrong -- and where.
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Sinned
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Sinned »

Well Trump has certainly not done, or more importantly said, anything to clarify the situation! Deliberate, lies and bending of the truth.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Frankly, none of you answered my question directly.

I asked:

What policies were you expecting from a 2nd term of the Trump Presidency that you're concerned President-elect Biden will not enact?

What is your vision for America that you feel a continuation of the Trump Administration would have been more likely to bring to fruition than the upcoming Biden Administration?

I promised to keep this thread focused strictly on policies so I am NOT going to address the character attacks on President-elect Biden in this thread. Nor will I try to sort out the facts from the fictions and conflations. I may start a whole other thread to do that, but as Denimini correctly pointed out, my commitment was to hold my responses for 2 weeks so those of you who didn't wholeheartedly support Joe Biden could have your uninterrupted say.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by moonshadow »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:33 am
I asked:

What policies were you expecting from a 2nd term of the Trump Presidency that you're concerned President-elect Biden will not enact?
Not exactly...

The question was:
In that vein I am asking those of you who voted for Donald Trump’s reelection to state, as specifically as you can, why you voted for him. What concerns or policies did you feel Trump stood for that Biden didn’t?
In that vein I am asking those of you who voted for Donald Trump’s reelection to state, as specifically as you can, why you voted for him.


I think Brad answered that question pretty directly. Though I myself didn't vote for Trump, I did post some of the concerns I often hear in my conservative corner of the world...

You wanted to know why people voted for Trump, an answer was delivered.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

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But let's go back to this post here:

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=21872&start=15#p220308

Which links to this article by the Roanoke Times,

https://heraldcourier.com/opinion/their ... a95c9.html

From the article:
First, the stereotype of the coal counties clinging to a dying industry is wrong, and this is but the latest example. The Republican legislators from that region deserve more credit than they’ve gotten for trying to lead the region in a different direction. They’ve established the Southwest Virginia Energy Research and Development Authority, with a goal of trying to make a region that once was an energy capital for an old form of energy into an energy capital for new forms of energy. They’ve tried to persuade Dominion Energy to locate a pumped storage hydroelectric project in the region. They’ve established InvestSWVA, an economic development group that has set out to create connections with the technology community in Northern Virginia.

It continues...

Now here comes a twist: Some of those coal tax credits are now being used to promote renewable energy. Is this some clever maneuvering to try to save those credits? Maybe. But it also underscores an inconvenient point for Democrats who want to mount a new challenge to those tax credits: Southwest Virginia doesn’t exactly have a lot of tools to work with. Some of those tax credits are, by law, directed to the Virginia Coalfield Economic Development Authority. If the General Assembly abolishes the coal tax credits, will it come up with some other way to fund economic development in the region? That’s probably one of those questions that answers itself. Democrats hate it every time we say this but we’ll keep saying it because it’s true: The party has shown scant interest in helping Southwest Virginia build a new economy.

I trust you wanted concerns to carry to your Democratic Senator about why they can't win more rural votes.

So when I venture out and tell locals NOT to vote GOP, and they quote words taken from articles like the one above, what am I supposed to tell them? I'm seeing first hand here in Virginia what happens when 2/3's of a state's geography is literally FORGOTTEN about. The evidence seems to indicate that the Democratic party is only interested in big urban areas.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

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Now you may be thinking to yourself Dave (and other urban Democrats,) "ahh fooey... Virginia is already firmly blue... what the hell do we need to worry about some forgotten Trumpie corner of the state for?"

Ah, but consider the prize. Virginia is in a UNIQUE position, that few other states can claim, they have all three branches of state government firmly in the hands of liberal Democrats, and a SEVERELY economically depressed area of the state that has been under the control of conservative Republicans (1970s onward) and conservative Democrats (1960s and prior).

The Virginia legislature is in a position to enact positive change to the Virginia coal fields, and send a message to neighboring states that "this is how the Democratic party gets things done". Results speak, and when NOVA Democrats forget about the south western parts of the state, what message is that sending to neighboring Tennessee and West Virginia?

On the other hand, Imagine southwest VA overcoming many of its challenges, such as tackling the declining economy, eliminating the opioid issue, increased access to modern infrastructure, bringing passenger rail down along the I81 corridor and into the Tennessee Valley. Democrats need to put southwestern VA on their resume, let it be a shining example to neighboring states, then watch as the those electoral votes in Tennessee, West Virginia, maybe even as far as Alabama, Kentucky, etc, start to go blue. They're [Democrats] not going to achieve this by turning a blind eye to what a $15 min wage is going to do to this area when literally right across the street in Tennessee, businesses there are allowed to pay the federal minimum, among other issues they seem to ignore.

We've brought these issues to the attention of the NOVA Democrats that currently run the state, and the blew us off...!

In a nutshell, Appalachian voters need answers and leadership, not political bullsh!t.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Max »

In the 2016 election I voted, but not for him or her. They both disgusted me equally.

This year, I held my nose and voted for Trump. He still disgusts me on a personal level. I voted for him for much the same reasons others have stated. I see Trump's biggest failures being things like the ballooning deficit and other issues. However, I know Biden will be even worse on such matters.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Hello Moon,

You quoted me correctly, but I thought I made it clear, I was looking for the policies that people wanted to see over the next 4 years, because that is the only thing that can be altered; Biden won the Presidency. With a 7 million vote spread and the majority of the votes cast I would like to say decisively.

With all of the minor parties in evidence it’s been rare for a President to get more than a plurality. So the will of the people is decisively in favor of Joe Biden over Donald Trump.

That said, in the Battleground States, Biden’s margin, about 45,000 votes, was even narrower than Trump’s 4 years ago, about 88,000, I think. Let’s think about that: Biden gets the largest margin in decades and yet if 45,000 votes in a handful of states swung the other way, Trump would have won the Presidency? By the way, those battleground states were all Urban, generally industrial or post-industrial states. They most certainly aren’t rural. Only one, Arizona, is West of the Mississippi. No one can tell me that the Electoral College hasn’t outlived its usefulness.

Here, I’ll have to agree with Carl; at least as far as the Electoral College goes, what we were taught in public school is by hogwash!

Moon, you do have a good point, the Democratic Party seems to have abandoned about rural Americans. So I will speak to those concerns you raised in another post.

Max, after I provide a little background, I would like to know what makes you think Biden will run up larger deficits than Trump did. Trump ran up more additional debt than any other President in history. Throughout the post WWII era, Republican administrations have consistently run up larger deficits than the Democratic administrations. Quite remarkable when you consider that Democratic President s have consistently turned over growing economies, when it should be quite easy to reduce deficits, and Republican Presidents have often turned over declining economies to their Democratic successors, when deficit spending is required to get the country out of its tailspin.

With that kind of record and Joe Biden being in important government positions for 39 or 40 of the last 44 years, the exception being the Trump years, what makes you think that Biden will run up the national debt more than Trump would have? The logic escapes me.
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by Freedomforall »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:27 am


With that kind of record and Joe Biden being in important government positions for 39 or 40 of the last 44 years, the exception being the Trump years, what makes you think that Biden will run up the national debt more than Trump would have? The logic escapes me.
You bring up a point that has concerned me all along. I noticed during the debates neither candidate mentioned lowering the national deficit. I got the feeling things are so out of control both parties have abandoned the thought of ever reducing our national debt. I am attaching a website that list the deficits of presidents since 1914. I am not saying the information on this site is legitimate or not. I refuse to believe anything for certain unless it is an official document from Washington. Looking at the numbers briefly it seem s to me that both Democrats and Republicans contributed dramatically to the deficit. Also according to this site Roosevelt, Wilson, and Obama contributed the greatest debt to the deficit. \What facts make you believe Biden will break the odds and reduce the deficit? Do you have the location where your information was obtained?

Both my wife and I have worked for the government. She was in the Navy and I worked for the city of Nashville. We compared our stories and both experienced the same. Every year around budget time we would both always hear supervisors saying, " We have a large surplus of money left over this year. We need to spend it so that we can ask for more." Neither of us ever heard anyone mention anything about carrying the money over. Many times the spending of the extra money would be on extremely frivolous things such as a mahogany desk and fancy leather chair for the supervisors office. This is the frustrating thing about government for me. If they fall short they just raise property taxes etc. If they have money left over then they spend it all.


https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-p ... nt-3306296
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Re: A Sincere Request of Help from Those Who Disagree with My Politics

Post by crfriend »

Freedomforall wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:46 pm
Also according to this site Roosevelt, Wilson, and Obama contributed the greatest debt to the deficit.
That's entirely unsurprising. Wilson and [F.D.] Roosevelt largely financed two major global-scale wars on the back of deficit spending, which worked out as inflation later on as time passed. Obama continued the idiotic wartime policies of Cheney/Dubya, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that he's in the mix as well -- especially given the overall cost of the technological nature of the Cheney/Dubya/Obama wars.

Biden is going to do what his Corporate masters tell him to do, full stop. Expect no letup in the fiscal haemorrhaging. The same thing would have happened no matter which "candidate" "won" the "election" of 2020. And it's been going on since 1980.
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