MORAL, US politics this week

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JennC03
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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crfriend wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:08 pm
JennC03 wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:34 pm
Uncle Al wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:11 pm
Political Summation 2020-11-08.jpg
This sums things up, don't you think :?:
The only thing it sums up is people making excuses for Trump.I said what I said.Sorry not sorry🤷‍♀️
Actually the statement makes quite a bit of sense once one backs off from all the hype. Both parties have, indeed, been failing the general public for decades now when it comes to policy perspectives. The blunt point is that the politicians of both of the major parties are in the pockets of the corporations and the billionaires and do not give a whit about the Public Welfare or the general population.

Blaming the top dog is rather pointless as he's but one cog in a well-oiled machine. We need to put the machine out of commission before we can properly fix the system.
They're Politians everybody lies 🤷‍♀️ I guess we shouldn't have a President or any of the people in Senate or surrounding areas because they're all the same.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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JennC03 wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:15 pm
They're Politians everybody lies 🤷‍♀️ I guess we shouldn't have a President or any of the people in Senate or surrounding areas because they're all the same.
"They're all the same" because the system as it's being run now demands it; the ones in power are loyal to their corporate and super-rich donors, and neither of those have any commonality with the common man.

I'd love to hear what the founding fathers would say about what their country has become. The process can work, and worked reasonably well for about 200 years. It only really started coming apart in 1980 with the final straw being in 2000.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Two lessons learned from the Trump disaster.
(1) It takes only one rotten apple to wreck 244 years of democracy.
(2) Beware of any brainwashed cult that masquerades as a major political party.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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by Bertino56 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:46 am

Two lessons learned from the Trump disaster.
(1) It takes only one rotten apple to wreck 244 years of democracy.
(2) Beware of any brainwashed cult that masquerades as a major political party.
Indeed we have had a period of one very unstable narcissistic sociopath as head Cheerleader, but truly no single individual is fully responsible as not only is it a systemic problem of the primary parties being the purchased dupes of the monied interests; but that has been compounded by the lack of any personal integrity on the part of so many more -- especially as Jenn notes, in the house and senate -- but I'd not label them liars per se in the same sense as Trump's pathology but they have been too gutless to not contest what they feared may have threatened their power base.

"Democracy" in the US (and many other countries) has been a sham for, as Carl noted, in the neighborhood of 4 decades now. Perhaps the best we can hope for are somewhat more compassionate Oligarchs. I wish I knew where to find genuine conversion for the human political machine. As individuals it seems the best we can do is shine a little love, kindness, and support upon one another in our immediate surrounds in hopes the notion of cooperation and care rise to the top.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Faldaguy wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:41 pm
[...] that has been compounded by the lack of any personal integrity on the part of so many more -- especially as Jenn notes, in the house and senate -- but I'd not label them liars per se in the same sense as Trump's pathology but they have been too gutless to not contest what they feared may have threatened their power base.
I'd posit that a super-majority of both houses of the US Congress are bought and paid for by the same oligarchs that purchase the presidency every four years. And the game is rigged in precisely the same way -- at the primary "election" level. Doing away with primaries might be useful, even at the expense of a general election ballot being three pages long. (And the USA is increasingly becoming non-literate.)
Perhaps the best we can hope for are somewhat more compassionate Oligarchs.
Human biology seems to work against that. As the gene-pool shrinks for that class, the desire to "keep the wealth in the family" leads to degeneracy as we've already seen in at least two US presidents in the past 40 years. The hopes of finding a "compassionate" one decreases exponentially with each passing generation. I would not wager that compassion will play a role here.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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by crfriend » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:09 pm

I'd posit that a super-majority of both houses of the US Congress are bought and paid for by the same oligarchs that purchase the presidency every four years. And the game is rigged in precisely the same way -- at the primary "election" level. Doing away with primaries might be useful, even at the expense of a general election ballot being three pages long. (And the USA is increasingly becoming non-literate.)
I don't think there is any doubt. Just look at the last two primaries where the DNC made sure to knock Sanders off the ticket -- too threatening to the very scheme you suggested above.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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It is not just a problem in the US, it is anywhere that political parties can accept large donations. People elect the government and then the government panders to their major donors or members have huge conflicts of interest. Also there is a strategy to brainwash people to be frightened of socialist ideas so that they vote for a government that suits these oligarchs and then suffer poor healthcare with future generations suffering the full blown effects of climate change.
It seems that people are losing the ability of analytical thinking.

Anyway, good luck to those in the US, there could still be a rough ride over the next couple of months. It seems quite bizarre from afar.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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I suspect that a huge amount of money will be shovelled into the US legal system by both parties before this debacle is ended, funded not by the elite class but by a call for donations from the proletariat. Screw the workers, all for the whims of one narcissistic sociopath waging a battle that is unlikely to end in his favour. When it is all over there will probably be a major enquiry as to why the DoJ is being dragged into what should be state level affairs. Case of abuse of power, maybe?
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:23 am
[...] funded not by the elite class but by a call for donations from the proletariat. Screw the workers, all for the whims of one narcissistic sociopath waging a battle that is unlikely to end in his favour.
The elites do not care, nor do they need to; they have their man either way. This'll be a spectacular fleecing of the Faithful in order to try and prop up a fantasy. But, time will tell. According to the BBC, He has not yet conceded the election, nor is it likely that He will. It doesn't matter. Once the official Electoral votes are in and counted we will have the final answer, the elites will have their puppet, and the working class will continue its trajectory into abject poverty. Of note is that the Electors in the Electoral College do not necessarily have to vote the way that they are pledged (this is another reason why it needs to be abolished) -- so it is, really, still very much a crap-shoot.
When it is all over there will probably be a major enquiry as to why the DoJ is being dragged into what should be state level affairs. Case of abuse of power, maybe?
This is unlikely, unless it's performed as a criminal investigation -- in which case all bets may be off. Bluntly, nobody knows how the machine is going to behave come 2021-01-20 (69 days 02:43:05 away).
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Yes, I was reading that the States' College voters can go against the prevailing wish of the States' electoral results but, in probability, would face an enormous backlash, possibly violent if recent events are to go by, if they were to do so so it's unlikely but an outside possibility. Let's hope the bounds of sensibility are not tested in this. Now that would be "stealing" the election and surely He wouldn't be so brazen and desperate to try that? On second thoughts .... Of course I will be viewing this from several thousand miles away ....

You say that they may still have their man but would you prefer a starving, rabid rottweiler in charge or a golden retriever?

I was also reading that the DoJ, on its website is geared to the federal level, so why is it being asked to investigate at the State level? Surely, that's outside its remit and hence illegal and hence an abuse by the AG?

Btw I noticed your capitalisation also.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:14 pm
You say that they may still have their man but would you prefer a starving, rabid rottweiler in charge or a golden retriever?
That doesn't matter to me, I'm a cat person.
I was also reading that the DoJ, on its website is geared to the federal level, so why is it being asked to investigate at the State level? Surely, that's outside its remit and hence illegal and hence an abuse by the AG?
It also serves as a backstop against abuse by the various States.
Btw I noticed your capitalisation also.
I am perfectly happy to "appropriate" a good idea.

On timing. What I do not want to see is P-45 forced out early and have Pence installed on the throne. That would give him the power to pardon P-45 for any and all crimes committed whilst in office, in much the same was as Ford did with Nixon. I grudgingly accept that Ford's decision was best for the country at the time, but in this case want to see the miscreant charged for his offences.

Then there's the other spectre that we potentially face: Biden dies in office, Harris ascends the throne, and then appoints H. Clinton as VP. I try hard not contemplate that thought very much.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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As I see it the Presidential Pardon is only for federal crimes, so state crimes can't be pardoned. So what federal crimes has He committed? As I understand it the investigations being undertaken into His and His Companies' financial affairs don't appear to be pardonable so He could be under a lot of pressure after December20th. I also understand that the DoJ has been intervening on His behalf and trying to use the SCOUS to broaden immunity claims by Him. Of course that William Barr is a Republican must have nothing to do with it? Does impartiality come into it?

Apart from being Bill Clinton's wife I don't understand the dislike of her that appears to have an undercurrent. Is she that bad or what has she done that warrants such feelings?
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:49 pm
As I see it the Presidential Pardon is only for federal crimes, so state crimes can't be pardoned.
A Presidential pardon can let anybody off the hook from a federal charge up to, and perhaps including, treason, as well an anything ranging from state murder to local littering. It's rather broad.
So what federal crimes has He committed?
We can start with obstruction of justice, perjury, and assorted cover-ups. Recall that it wasn't the break-in at Democratic HQ that brought Nixon down it was the cover-up afterwards.
I also understand that the DoJ has been intervening on His behalf and trying to use the SCOUS to broaden immunity claims by Him. Of course that William Barr is a Republican must have nothing to do with it? Does impartiality come into it?
That's Barr meddling in things he doesn't understand. Impartiality is a quaint notion from the past.
Apart from being Bill Clinton's wife I don't understand the dislike of her that appears to have an undercurrent. Is she that bad or what has she done that warrants such feelings?
It's the not-so-subtle whiff of overt sleaze that's involved, the "pay-to-play" ethic and the like, and recall that she was deeply unpopular with the Democratic rank and file when nominated. P-45 was thus "elected" on a protest vote. H. Clinton was rammed through the primary process without consideration of the electorate, and that caused a whole lot of grief -- a classic case of the oligarchs knowing better than the electorate what's important. The "Democrats" (if one can call them that) fully deserved to lose that "election". H. Clinton was "safe" for the oligarchs on Day One; P-45 not so much so, but an instruction to watch The Godfather, followed by an "offer of a deal he could not refuse" assured stability at the desired policy level.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:49 pm

Of course that William Barr is a Republican must have nothing to do with it? Does impartiality come into it?
I trust this comment is made with tongue pressed deep into your cheek. Willie B has been known to swing and wiggle far more for his own pleasure than than those other willie waggers that have been prosecuted.
Apart from being Bill Clinton's wife I don't understand the dislike of her that appears to have an undercurrent. Is she that bad or what has she done that warrants such feelings?
The Woman though more your Golden Retriever than Donald T, she was indeed a pretty horrid choice, deep in the pockets of the banks and elites and look what she did with Honduras and other outliers as SOS -- a scary scenario indeed had she been loosed on the public as POTUS. That was another case of the DNC controlling the outcome and precluding any possible risk to the monied set should that "socialist" Bernie have gotten the nod.

Sad too, that even though numerous countries are playing with a universal income; and seeing the high cost of inequality especially due to lack of medical coverage in the USA, that those Oligarchs don't yet recognize that many of the so-called socialist polices would actually benefit them too; but greed is short-sighted.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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What happens when a president does not succeed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBcQ26h ... zG5V0eXDh0
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