MORAL, US politics this week

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Rokje
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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moonshadow wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:20 pm
crfriend wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:51 pm
It's time. External intervention is now required.
A fair notion, but who has the power to pull it off? Most likely the only arrangement with the raw power to put the U.S. in line would be a collaboration between Russia and China, and they're not exactly the direction I think we want to go.

Better the U.S. to be reabsorbed into the British Empire? But the U.K. alone couldn't pull that off, nor do I figure the Brits want to share legislative power with their "retarded cousins" east of the Atlantic.
:mrgreen: Maybe the Dutch ? Reinstate New Amsterdam as the Capitol city. Our nation likes to think BIG. Remember Make America Great Again , America First, The Netherlands second.
:lol:
Last edited by Rokje on Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Apologies to all you Trump supporters, look away now. Well this "election" is getting serious and turning into another round of violence. Laying siege to counting offices, What is it about you Americans and riots? Hasn't turned into one yet but give it time. Trump suing everyone in sight [2] - has He [0] left God [1] out? Biden looks to be just about at the finish line but Trump looks to have tripped him deliberately barging him out of the way. The tactics Trump is using now surely should bar Him from ever holding the office of POTUS. I can see the psychiatrists having to put Him in a straightjacket and drag Him drugged from the White House. Over here He is just showing himself as someone so desperate to hold on to His position that He will do anything, trample over anyone and break every moral code and ethics to stay where He is.

Carl you posit that the parties are the same in that they serve the great God Mammon but the leaders sure as hell aren't. One's a raving loonie that should be certified - the other isn't.

[0] I shall capitalise all references to Him as He seems, as Moon has said, to achieved that element of Godhood denied us mere mortals.
[1] Sorry He seems think that He is God. Would He be suing Himself?
[2] Without foundation in the real world but in Trump's world He seems hard done be.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:03 pm
Carl you posit that the parties are the same in that they serve the great God Mammon but the leaders sure as hell aren't. One's a raving loonie that should be certified - the other isn't.
I try to leave personalities out of the matter and focus instead on policies and results -- not campaign promises, not hype, but what actually gets done. When it comes to policy matters, what one of the major candidates will do versus the other approaches nil. Touching on the personality perspective, my comment is that precisely the only difference between the two major candidates is that one is housebroken.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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crfriend wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:44 pm
Sinned wrote:
Thu Nov 05, 2020 1:03 pm
Carl you posit that the parties are the same in that they serve the great God Mammon but the leaders sure as hell aren't. One's a raving loonie that should be certified - the other isn't.
I try to leave personalities out of the matter and focus instead on policies and results -- not campaign promises, not hype, but what actually gets done. When it comes to policy matters, what one of the major candidates will do versus the other approaches nil. Touching on the personality perspective, my comment is that precisely the only difference between the two major candidates is that one is housebroken.
Isn't it somewhat ironic then that Trump, by his very nature drew so many flaws in our political system to a head?

Countless people are getting a first class lesson in how the electoral college works, millions more Americans are engaged in the "nuts and bolts" of the system now then ever before.

In those ways, Donald Trump was a benefit. Perhaps he is not the cancer, he's the chemotherapy.

And we all know chemotherapy SUCKS but it's required to flush the cancer.

But make no mistake.... one the cancer is discovered and cured, the chemo stops....

I mean... nothing like a close brush with tyranny to give the nation a wake up call...
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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From over here Trump looks like the elephant in a porcelain store. But he got some things right. China is the big red danger that we should watch closely. He managed to stir up the economy until covid19 hit it hard.

But his speeches, they are full of crap, and dangerous to some people because they trust him. Remember the bleach story?

Just from my perspective Biden is the right choice. America has to be much greener, and it will, and it will bring more jobs then the old fashioned industry will ever had. It will not work in the next 4 years, but for the planet, it is the way to go. For all of us. For the future.

Over here in Europe on that tiny spot at the North Sea, we try, but fail deeply. We are big in water issues, but environmental we missed the boat on that part. We burn wood to lower our CO2 emissions. What were they thinking? Sunlight and windmills is not enough, will nuclear energy be the answer? If we find a solution the nuclear waste, I'm OK with it. But the waste is still a problem
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Rokje wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:53 pm
From over here Trump looks like the elephant in a porcelain store. But he got some things right. China is the big red danger that we should watch closely. He managed to stir up the economy until covid19 hit it hard.
The problem with China is that the US moved virtually all of its manufacturing over there starting in the '80s so the fat-cats here could make fatter profits because they didn't have to pay the Chinese workers what they'd been paying US workers -- and that's what bit us recently: we're beholden to a hostile power for our necessities. As far as stirring up the economy, well one needs to look carefully at that because there are two economies here in the US -- the Wall Street economy, which is populated by billionaire gamblers and speculators, and the "Little Economy" which is peopled by what's left of the working class who draw wages. The former economy is doing just fine; the latter one is effectively deceased, having been weakened over 40 years of job-loss and "jobless recoveries" and finally scuttled by the recent virus problems. Thus the super-rich get richer and the poor are now conveniently (for the rich) dying off.
Sunlight and windmills is not enough, will nuclear energy be the answer? If we find a solution the nuclear waste, I'm OK with it. But the waste is still a problem.
The radioactive-waste problem has largely been solved in the form of deep entombment in geologically-stable areas. It's a trade-off, really. Which would you rather deal with, a few hundred tons of stuff that's going to be lethal for centuries or hundreds of thousands of tons of carbon dioxide? Nuclear energy is largely dead in the popular opinion, that popular opinion having been carefully shaped by millions of dollars in PR and outright propaganda from the fossil-fuel extraction industry and by two high-profile fiascoes (Chernobyl and Three Mile Island) and one instance of spectacularly bad siting (Fukoshima). Other than that, the technology has proven remarkably safe and reliable.

The Chernobyl reactor (a very old design without a containment vessel) was being operated well outside its specs and experienced a power surge that was powerful enough to cause a thermal explosion. Three Mile Island was a case where the reactor was being operated in a degraded state because maintenance on some of the valves had been repeatedly postponed so the operators wouldn't have to shut it down and lose some money -- a good case for excluding for-profit companies from operating potentially lethal equipment. Finally, Fukoshima was overcome by Mother Nature when it was hit with an unexpectedly large tsunami that swamped the backup generators and kept the emergency equipment from operating properly.

Solar power is great when the sun is shining strongly, but not so hot when it's nighttime, cloudy. or (as happens here) there's snow on the PV panels. We've got a PV array on the roof where I live, and during the summer provides power more during the daytime than we use, so that gets "sold" back to the utility at wholesale pricing; at night, the batteries can hold us up for a few hours, but drain back down again at which point we're buying power from the utility at retail rates. Since the whole thing is run by computers, I set up a data-feed where my computers ask its computers what's going on every minute and stashes the result in a database that allows me to do some interesting analysis on the raw numbers.

Wind only works well in areas with relatively stable and predictable winds, and as every sailor knows, once in a while you can becalmed for days at a stretch. So, some form of generation capacity has to be retained other than solar or wind.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Well it looks as if Biden has won, all bar the mopping up. His communications were calm, statesman-like and considered unlike what was coming from the other party. It's interesting that now that the results are coming out and Trump is making more outlandish and false statements that his own party is now condemning him, something that they should have done long ago. It will be interesting to see how the handover happens should Biden be finally confirmed as the victor.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:54 pm
Well it looks as if Biden has won, all bar the mopping up.
It's too close to call, still, and the difference required for one or the other is well under the statistical noise limit. Plus there's the spectre that the Supreme Cout will get its mitts on the thing in which case it's an automatic win for Trump. "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.", goes the old saying. In this case, the final results may not be known until late January of 2021.

Personally, I was ready for a Pence presidency on 2017-01-22, by whatever means necessary.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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It's always a bad sign when the courts get involved but if everything is being done legally, and the indications from the counting offices are that they are as they are aware of possible litigations, then the results should stand and no reason for the courts to intervene. Interestingly, who pays for the legal actions? I presume the parties and as the Republicans appear to be adding distance between them and Trump, they may not wish to finance the litigation.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Rokje wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:53 pm
We burn wood to lower our CO2 emissions.
That is good thing for the environment.  By growing trees you trap energy from the sun and CO2 from the air, the trapped energy is needed but the extra wood is not; it will cause more damage than the original CO2 because it will eventually rot and produce Methane.  You release the energy by burning the wood and return exactly the right amount of CO2 to the atmosphere to be captured by the next generation of trees.  The important thing is that you haven't burnt any fossil fuels, so you are not adding to the total amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

Growing trees and burning them is a far more environmentally-friendly way of using the sun's energy than wind turbines or solar cells because the energy inputs for the creation and disposal of the infrastructure are lower.

If you really want to capture carbon, use the trees to produce gas in a gasworks or a digester and bury the residual carbon in disused coal mines.  That way there would be no methane released to the atmosphere.
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Sinned wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:54 pm
Well it looks as if Biden has won, all bar the mopping up. His communications were calm, statesman-like and considered unlike what was coming from the other party. It's interesting that now that the results are coming out and Trump is making more outlandish and false statements that his own party is now condemning him, something that they should have done long ago. It will be interesting to see how the handover happens should Biden be finally confirmed as the victor.
I hold to my original prediction. Trump has no intention of vacating the white house. In fact, I've wondered these last few days if he actually did flat out "lose", would he rally up and wage a flat out [civil] war to stay in power?

He's got the support, and his base is heavily armed, not to mention while the Pentagon would likely honor the constitution and our electoral process, I suspect many active duty soldiers and a good many veterans will side with Trump, as they have been thoroughly conditioned over the centuries to accept anything the Commander in Cheif says. Trump has billed this situation as a direct attack on the American way of life, when if fact all evidence seems to indicate he's America's Hitler.

It's not likely but it's certainly possible, that this might actually be the end of the U.S. Even if Trump loses and accepts defeat with dignity (perhaps too late for that, but I digress), lest we forget that in virtually EVERY state, even the "blue" ones, Trump still enjoys a damned near 50% support rate. The nation hasn't been this divided since the 1860s and we continue to set records daily on that account.

That 50% just isn't going to say "aww shucks... I guess we'll support Biden, as he's [about to be] our president now..." No, expect more civil unrest, violence, bickering, etc.
crfriend wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:07 pm
"It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.", goes the old saying. In this case, the final results may not be known until late January of 2021.
No Carl, the "fat lady" is dead. It's basically over.... Regardless of who occupies the white house come January, this nation will continue to implode and finally collapse. Which is why I agree it's vital for the rest of the world to find someway to denuclearize the U.S. before we end all life on the planet.

Never in human history has a nation so heavily armed in weapons of mass destruction, went to war with itself.

The end is nigh!
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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Additionally, I actually worry about Trump losing, and vacating the office of the President like someone who might vacate a house during foreclosure...

In other words, "trash the place", it's a scary thought, here we have a man, a likely sociopath, with access to untold amounts of classified information, nuclear launch codes, etc, who, oh by the way is disturbingly friendly with some of America's most fickle foes....

Who knows the damage he can inflict before January, and personally I think the Pentagon needs to be on high alert and watch him very carefully...

And yes, I'm sure if Trump "accidentally" drops a nuke on Los Angeles or NYC, his base would still rally behind him. "GOOD!" They'll say... "two less commie libtard cities!"

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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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moonshadow wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:21 pm
I hold to my original prediction. Trump has no intention of vacating the white house. In fact, I've wondered these last few days if he actually did flat out "lose", would he rally up and wage a flat out [civil] war to stay in power?
I was mulling that very possibility this morning and came to the humourous vision of Trump being forcibly escorted from the White House in the custody of armed Secret Service agents. If he loses, he is legally obligated to vacate. Now that shock would traumatise any toddler and we can expect a tantrum if that should come to pass. However, I still retain some badly-shaken faith in things hence the vision from above.

My main worry is that the legal challenges to the election process lead to the Supreme Court getting involved, three members of which owe their newfound fame/fortune/lifetime-job to Trump, and another few ideologues who would support his position (or merely obey their paymasters). If the paymasters get sick of Trump the problem would be solved quickly, likely with either a bang or a muffled thud (and Trump knows this).

On the use of the nukes: I quite honestly do not see this happening, if for the only reason that it would remove the US oligarchs from power -- permanently (being dead tends to do that) -- and they're not interested in that. Too, militaries can be rather strange in the way they operate. In 2016 I remember commenting that, "Perhaps the last hope we have is that the little Air Force officer that carries the "football" also carries a sidearm and is authorised to use it." Would a military officer thrust into that sort of situation with an unstable Commander in Chief giving a clearly insane order have the guts to ignore the order and potentially shoot the CiC? (The other thing is that maybe the Air Force simply hasn't changed the batteries in the thing since the days of Cheney/Dubya...) However, I do agree that the place needs, badly, to be defanged -- especially the weapons of mass destruction need to be taken away from it.
He's got the support, and his base is heavily armed, not to mention while the Pentagon would likely honor the constitution and our electoral process, I suspect many active duty soldiers and a good many veterans will side with Trump, as they have been thoroughly conditioned over the centuries to accept anything the Commander in Cheif says. Trump has billed this situation as a direct attack on the American way of life, when if fact all evidence seems to indicate he's America's Hitler.
That's an internal problem. My main worry is that it might escalate into an external problem which is why I pointed up the above.
No Carl, the "fat lady" is dead.
Well, we'll need to find somebody to stand in for her. Hannah Montana, perhaps? Lady Gaga?
The end is nigh!
The end, when it comes, will likely come in economic form and not "fire from the sky".
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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https://youtu.be/vW-ImCVDsWk

Carl, this video makes me think of some of your post here...

I'd be curious of your thoughts on a so called "people's party".

Though thinking realistically, I doubt they could put a dent in the strong hold of the republicrats.

I'd watch it carefully as I've heard most if not all third parties are actually funded by the Democrats and Republicans, to siphon vote away from one another, the Libertarian party, funded by the Democrats to siphon votes from the Republicans, the Green Party, vice versa...

Consider if there were no Libertarian on the ticket, Trump would have easily snatched Georgia, and probably most other swing states. Likewise, I imagine Kayne West is on the Republican payroll to keep Democrats from a landslide victory...
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Re: MORAL, US politics this week

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To be honest, I do think that the world has changed and that the US is no longer of the importance it was due to trump. Trump has made the office a disgrace, not only now, but during the tenure in total. The book by his niece Mary is indeed very revealing. The book by Bolton is more of two clashing ego's.
The biggest problem we are encountering is that there are to many leaders of countries with matching ego's. Putin, Xi, Kim, Erdogan to name a few. Rumor has it that Putin will step down next year due to Parkinson. Maybe good, but on the other hand it gives other "narcists" more free reign.
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