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moonshadow
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Re: POSTED

Post by moonshadow »

Sinned wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:46 am
We don't understand your fascination with them and you don't seem to understand our rejection of them.
I'm not personally fascinated with them. But it is what it is. Gun culture has indeed been a large part of American life pretty much since the land was first settled by white man.

As for me, I couldn't care less either way, I'm not personally a "gun guy" but people who are don't bother me. They've got the right, and unless they ammend the constitution, they probably always will.

Do understand there are wide spans of territory in the U.S., even in more crowded areas along the east coast, it can take a hour or longer for a deputy to show up, there could be a situation with a wild animal threatening harm to property or livestock, or of course the possibility of criminal situations.

Sometimes an a sign like Fred's, despite being a little obnoxious could deter possible criminal activity, thus saving the life of the would be criminal, and a lengthy legal case with the property owner.

It's like the rattle snakes tail... a warning... heed it and everyone lives another day.
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Re: POSTED

Post by Shilo »

crfriend wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:21 pm
moonshadow wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:41 pm
Perhaps, but teeeechnically.... Fred's sign (the one that started this thread), really isn't a threat. All it says is that the property owner is old, fat, and lazy...
Never let on about your infirmities, and never let on about your advantages. Both can cause you trouble. There are some things that are best played close to the vest. Just sayin' -- and that goes for any culture, not just what passes for cultcha in the USA.
That’s exactly right. The first indication that you have a gun should be after you’ve used it. I know from police firearms training in the UK that in the time it takes to say “Halt! Armed police officer!” An assailant could have crossed a room and stuck a knife in the 👮‍♀️☹️
Don’t threaten; take action!
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Sinned
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Re: POSTED

Post by Sinned »

It always strikes me as amusing that in any TV series, such as NCIS, where gun battles ensue, that shouting "Federal agents, put down your weapons," is a bit pointless as the baddie could have shot them all in the time it takes to utter the warning. Especially if they have a semi-automatic complete with 50,000 [0] round magazine firing at 10 rounds ( or whatever ) per second.

[0] I know, but that's what they seem to have. Hundreds of rounds expended before they seem to have the need to change magazine! Even handguns seem to have large capacity magazines. Do they go around afterwards pickup up the discarded ( empty ) magazines that they dropped previously in the shootout?
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crfriend
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Re: POSTED

Post by crfriend »

Sinned wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:45 pm
It always strikes me as amusing that in any TV series, such as NCIS, where gun battles ensue, that shouting "Federal agents, put down your weapons," is a bit pointless as the baddie could have shot them all in the time it takes to utter the warning. Especially if they have a semi-automatic complete with 50,000 [0] round magazine firing at 10 rounds ( or whatever ) per second.
Never, even for a microsecond, confuse what you see on the telly with reality. It does not work that way in real life.
[0] I know, but that's what they seem to have. Hundreds of rounds expended before they seem to have the need to change magazine! Even handguns seem to have large capacity magazines. Do they go around afterwards pickup up the discarded ( empty ) magazines that they dropped previously in the shootout?
Nobody ever runs out of ammunition in the script unless they're required to for effect. Again, the real world is different from the fantasy world of TeeVee.

One truly terrifying thing I learnt quite by accident last night is that over here (in the US) the cops are trained to not take single shots; the directive is "Center-of-mass and keep firing until the magazine is empty" (usually 20+ rounds of 9mm or 18+ of .40 calibre). This effectively turns them into nothing more than hired killers which did not sit with me well at the time and sits less well as time goes on.
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Fred in Skirts
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Re: POSTED

Post by Fred in Skirts »

crfriend wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:20 pm
One truly terrifying thing I learnt quite by accident last night is that over here (in the US) the cops are trained to not take single shots; the directive is "Center-of-mass and keep firing until the magazine is empty" (usually 20+ rounds of 9mm or 18+ of .40 calibre). This effectively turns them into nothing more than hired killers which did not sit with me well at the time and sits less well as time goes on.
When I was active with the local police (not a cop but part of the public safety section) We had the chance to take fire arms training with the FBI tactical unit. We were taught take 3 shots to center body mass. Then if the perpetrator did not drop then 3 more again to center body mass.
Part of the training was watching just how this worked using body cam video and other footage taken at different times. While gruesome it was instructive..
I did not know they changed it to emptying your weapon in the perpetrator. Something I think is poor practice because then you do not have anything for other perpetrators who might be around..
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Re: POSTED

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by Fred in Skirts » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:38 pm

crfriend wrote: ↑Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:20 am
One truly terrifying thing I learnt quite by accident last night is that over here (in the US) the cops are trained to not take single shots; the directive is "Center-of-mass and keep firing until the magazine is empty" (usually 20+ rounds of 9mm or 18+ of .40 calibre). This effectively turns them into nothing more than hired killers which did not sit with me well at the time and sits less well as time goes on.
When I was active with the local police (not a cop but part of the public safety section) We had the chance to take fire arms training with the FBI tactical unit. We were taught take 3 shots to center body mass. Then if the perpetrator did not drop then 3 more again to center body mass.
Part of the training was watching just how this worked using body cam video and other footage taken at different times. While gruesome it was instructive..
I did not know they changed it to emptying your weapon in the perpetrator. Something I think is poor practice because then you do not have anything for other perpetrators who might be around..
Why is it that a great many countries seem to manage 'policing' functions without lethal weapons? Why is the weapon of choice in the US lethal first, rather than a slew of other options? It seems most of the killings we are seeing on tapes these days, the "perps" were not armed; were running away; or clearly not acting in an aggressive fashion. No doubt there are exceptions, but it seems the US approach is shoot first, think later.
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Re: POSTED

Post by denimini »

I think a sign like Fred's tells crims not to enter unless they are appropriately equipped.
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Re: POSTED

Post by crfriend »

denimini wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:27 am
I think a sign like Fred's tells crims not to enter unless they are appropriately equipped.
Thus upping the odds of a lethal encounter by orders of magnitude.
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Re: POSTED

Post by Ray »

crfriend wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:33 pm
denimini wrote:
Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:27 am
I think a sign like Fred's tells crims not to enter unless they are appropriately equipped.
Thus upping the odds of a lethal encounter by orders of magnitude.
Exactly.

Reductio ad absurdum.
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Re: POSTED

Post by PatJ »

Empty the weapon - take three shots - repeat if necessary - wow!

I wonder if the reasoning has anything to do with the cost of a lawsuit
for wrongful death is cheaper than a lengthy trial and keeping the perp.
in jail for life? Or is it a matter of "dead men tell no tales?"

Regardless - it is a issue that must be addressed but while it is being
addressed, we need to look at the root causes of why people are commit
crime in the first place carrying lethal weapons in the first place.
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Re: POSTED

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They carry the lethal weapons because they can, it's that simple. I agree that the sign is more likely to end in sorrow and somebody dead.

BTW, Carl, I know that TeeVee is fiction and bears no comparison to reality - I was just using that example to illustrate the point about time, cause and effect. Take the time to issue the warning and by the time you have finished without shooting while doing so then you'd be dead.

In your current climate I don't see any way of facilitating gun control in the US.
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Re: POSTED

Post by crfriend »

Sinned wrote:
Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:49 pm
They carry the lethal weapons because they can, it's that simple. I agree that the sign is more likely to end in sorrow and somebody dead.
Of note, the overwhelming percentage of the US population does not carry even some of the time. Only the criminals and the cops do. I know which set I'm worried about most.
BTW, Carl, I know that TeeVee is fiction and bears no comparison to reality - I was just using that example to illustrate the point about time, cause and effect.
That observation was not aimed at you because I know better -- but a lot of folks don't (e.g my late ex-) because they've been "sucked in" by the fiction and dismiss reality.
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Re: POSTED

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Yeah, even "reality" series are fiction and staged for effect. Shows like "Big Brother" and "Celebrity Big Brother" [0] I have never watched. [1]

[0] "Celebrity" is a bit of a misnomer as, from what I have gleaned from the press, the participants are third tier or lower. Not that I'm the expert.
[1] Correction. I made an error changing channel and ended up on the BB channel just at the point where Jane Goody was starting a major racial rant about Shilpa Shetty. I listened to a few minutes of it then rurned over and have not seen anything of the programme since. I figured that if that was what the programme was all about then it wasn't for me.
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Re: POSTED

Post by oldsalt1 »

Of note, the overwhelming percentage of the US population does not carry even some of the time.

Only the criminals and the cops do.

I know which set I'm worried about most.

I'll leave this blog quoting CR
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