Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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Uncle Al
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Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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Educated People - Food for Thought JPG 2020-10-16.jpg
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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That's not "left field" at all, but an entirely valid observation. The problem is how "education" is prosecuted in the modern world -- at least in the US. It's entirely focused on having the individual regurgitate, in a Pavlovian way, factoids that have been imparted on the individual. It has precisely nothing to do with educating the individual how to harness the power that's available to the human mind. Thus, we wind up with obedient little sheep who believe implicitly in what they're told and who never question the validity thereof, much less actually perform thought experiments on the path things are taking.

"Dumb 'em down via 'education'" is the modern mantra, and it's worked brilliantly. It has for a human generation, and look where it's gotten us.
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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....Just like the once all-powerful Catholic Church did here in Ireland for years right up until the '80s & 90s when they finally lst their grip on education and we voted in Gay Marriage, LGBT rights and abortions by referenda.

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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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crfriend wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:38 pm
That's not "left field" at all, but an entirely valid observation. The problem is how "education" is prosecuted in the modern world -- at least in the US. It's entirely focused on having the individual regurgitate, in a Pavlovian way, factoids that have been imparted on the individual. It has precisely nothing to do with educating the individual how to harness the power that's available to the human mind. Thus, we wind up with obedient little sheep who believe implicitly in what they're told and who never question the validity thereof, much less actually perform thought experiments on the path things are taking.
That was not my experience in the US schools, neither in highschool or above. It was not the experience of my sons in US schools either. Maybe it depends on the teacher or the school district.

Of course, I taught my sons to question while homeschooling before they entered the "real" schools.
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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Jim wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:35 am
That was not my experience in the US schools, neither in highschool or above. It was not the experience of my sons in US schools either. Maybe it depends on the teacher or the school district.
I was speaking to the times since roughly 2000. Before then it was quite a bit better.

The impact of parents cannot be underestimated, though.
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

Post by Faldaguy »

Jim » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:35 pm

crfriend wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:38 pm
That's not "left field" at all, but an entirely valid observation. The problem is how "education" is prosecuted in the modern world -- at least in the US. It's entirely focused on having the individual regurgitate, in a Pavlovian way, factoids that have been imparted on the individual. It has precisely nothing to do with educating the individual how to harness the power that's available to the human mind. Thus, we wind up with obedient little sheep who believe implicitly in what they're told and who never question the validity thereof, much less actually perform thought experiments on the path things are taking.
That was not my experience in the US schools, neither in highschool or above. It was not the experience of my sons in US schools either. Maybe it depends on the teacher or the school district.

Of course, I taught my sons to question while homeschooling before they entered the "real" schools.
I'd suggest it proceeded the 2000's by quite a bit. There have been a series of books on the deliberate dumbing down of education for a full half century now. In the early 80's corporations were buying advertising time on lighted running banner boards placed in schools "free" to provide the news and "educational" enrichment. Not only did it serve as another avenue to tap young un-questioning minds, for product, but it provided opportunities to influence curriculum in a manner that created automatons that serve without questioning. So Jim, your little bit of "indoctrination" of your sons probably saved the day (and their life) for them. I recall my parents asking simple questions about the validity of claims made in advertisements to make us think a bit about what we were told. I would grant that some school districts, or countries, are better than others. Our daughter did well in Canada, but when in Hawaii the schools there often employed and were influenced by the Japanese educational cultural of sit prim and regurgitate so we had to use a private school until we were back on the mainland--nearly lost a bright child.

Thanks Uncle Al; we all need to employ this caution a lot more in these days of the internet and social media driving opinions & so-called 'facts'.
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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Faldaguy wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:58 am
I'd suggest it proceeded the 2000's by quite a bit. There have been a series of books on the deliberate dumbing down of education for a full half century now.
Correct. Much of the overt rot that we now witness had its genesis in the early '80s when the neocons and reactionaries rose to formal power. In the span of a half-decade, the country had lurched dangerously over to the "right" and much of the gains to be had from the '60s and '70s wiped away. We see that in attitudes, we see it in fortune, and we even see it in fashion. The reason I called out 2,000 specifically was the passage of "No Child Left Behind" which was an outright assault on public education by the American Taleban -- and it was successful. And it's going to take decades to undo, if it even can be undone.

I was raised to possess a sceptical and critical mind -- essentially, "Question everything, especially if something doesn't seem quite right or if it seems "too right"." Ask the quesstion, "Why?" until an answer is arrived at -- an answer that withstands critical analysis.
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

Post by Freedomforall »

I think this quote is very fitting.
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

Post by oldsalt1 »

Freedom I am missing something If thinking is difficult people would just accept . In order to judge you would have to think
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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I think he means judging by their own view of right and wrong (possibly regurgitated from their parents or their community).

For example, depending on where you lived in the UK and what work you did, in the 1980s, your politics were largely fixed. This is shown particularly in relation to the Miners strike in former pit towns. Mention Maggie Thatcher at your peril.

Margaret Thatcher made it a personal crusade to end the power of the unions and Arthur Scargill made it a personal crusade to bring down the government. In my view, both lost credibility, except with their supporters. And both sides lost, to the detriment of our nation.
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

Post by Freedomforall »

greenboots wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:19 pm
I think he means judging by their own view of right and wrong (possibly regurgitated from their parents or their community).

For example, depending on where you lived in the UK and what work you did, in the 1980s, your politics were largely fixed. This is shown particularly in relation to the Miners strike in former pit towns. Mention Maggie Thatcher at your peril.

Margaret Thatcher made it a personal crusade to end the power of the unions and Arthur Scargill made it a personal crusade to bring down the government. In my view, both lost credibility, except with their supporters. And both sides lost, to the detriment of our nation.
Yes you are absolutely correct. Old salt is correct as well. Judging does sometimes require thinking. However, many times judging is an instant reaction that people have based on things they have heard or seen. It could be something taught by parents, etc. This type of reaction requires little to no thinking at all. Think of a child that grows up in a racist home. All their life they have heard racial things from their parents. Sometimes they rarely give these things any second thought because of the source.
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

Post by Kirbstone »

Food for thought: I thought it was only politicians performed u-turns.

Now why would lowly carrots do the same? So far a high proportion of carrots harvested from our daughter's garden are bent like these
Thye are planted in a raised bed so there is a more than adequate depth of good soil for them.

Tom
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

Post by pelmut »

Kirbstone wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:21 am
Thye are planted in a raised bed so there is a more than adequate depth of good soil for them.
If she planted them in holes filled with soft good-quality potting soil, or soil that held moisture well, and the layer of soil below the hole was poorer quality or dryer, the roots might turn upwards in response to better nutrition or water supply.  Is there a layer of stones in the raised bed?
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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

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...........Daughter not being here at the mo., I quizzed MOH on the subject. Apparently Daughter germinated them in seed boxes in a polytunnel, then planted the seedlings out in that raised bed which was soil on top of donkey manure. No stones.

MOH says carrots shouldn't be moved and should grow where they are sown, thinned and the rest allowed to mature. The Oracle has spoken. Now that she has pronounced I remember as a schoolboy/student with a hoe thinning market garden crops in drills in the field...root crops left where they were and harvested when mature.

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Re: Out in Left Field - Food for Thought

Post by pelmut »

Kirbstone wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:13 pm
...planted the seedlings out in that raised bed which was soil on top of donkey manure.
It looks as though they are repulsed by donkey manure.  Perhaps it was creating a pH gradient in the overlying soil.
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