waiver

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Fred in Skirts
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waiver

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crfriend
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Re: waiver

Post by crfriend »

{sigh}

One last try. It's not about dissolving or disbanding the police -- although in some extreme cases of incompetence, laxness, or corruption that may be necessary -- it's about making them accountable again to civil law and social mores. It's not black and white; like everything else in real life it's a complex mixture of greys and polarising it does not help the sitauation any.

I understand there's been rioting and looting in the Big City to my East where I worked for a good many years and have a good many friends, and that breaks my heart. Mobs are unruly and dangerous things. Avoid them, and don't become part of one.
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oldsalt1
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Re: waiver

Post by oldsalt1 »

crfriend wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:16 pm
{sigh}

One last try. It's not about dissolving or disbanding the police -- although in some extreme cases of incompetence, laxness, or corruption that may be necessary -- i It's not black and white;

So what you are saying its not about totally disbanding the police unless of course it is

and again its not black and white which many say it is

I am glad that you cleared that up

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crfriend
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Re: waiver

Post by crfriend »

Read what I wrote and not what you may think I wrote. That's a good half of what's wrong in the United States now. Nobody pays attention to anything that doesn't originate from their own personal echo chamber. Worse, sometimes they cherry-pick and try to twist another's words.
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Ray
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Re: waiver

Post by Ray »

Carl,

A balanced narrative. Thank you.

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oldsalt1
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Re: waiver

Post by oldsalt1 »

crfriend wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:16 pm
{sigh}

One last try. It's not about dissolving or disbanding the police -- although in some extreme cases of incompetence, laxness, or corruption that may be necessary -- it's about making them accountable again to civil law and social mores. It's not black and white; like everything else in real life it's a complex mixture of greys and polarising it does not help the sitauation any.

I understand there's been rioting and looting in the Big City to my East where I worked for a good many years and have a good many friends, and that breaks my heart. Mobs are unruly and dangerous things. Avoid them, and don't become part of one.
Read your own words you said its not about dissolving or disbanding the police but in some cases that may be necessary so you are not going to disband unless you think it is necessary

I know what your intended meaning was. If you said something like "its not cut and dry or another phrase .. But in this specific case where it was how a white officer treated a black individual , just leave it with a smile as a poor choice of words

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crfriend
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Re: waiver

Post by crfriend »

oldsalt1 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:11 pm
crfriend wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:16 pm
It's not about dissolving or disbanding the police -- although in some extreme cases of incompetence, laxness, or corruption that may be necessary -- it's about making them accountable again to civil law and social mores.
Read your own words you said its not about dissolving or disbanding the police but in some cases that may be necessary so you are not going to disband unless you think it is necessary
What can be any clearer than my words as properly modified by adjectives such as "extreme". Note that that notion also requires proper adjudication by civil authority, not police authority. Note that it is entirely possible for soldiers to commit murder and to be court-martialed for the act. Dereliction of Duty is also a chargeable offence. The military has ways of dealing with these behaviours because they know it's in their own best interest to do so. Civil society needs similar notions in dealing with its police, and at the moment has none.
I know what your intended meaning was. If you said something like "its not cut and dry or another phrase .. But in this specific case where it was how a white officer treated a black individual , just leave it with a smile as a poor choice of words
You're putting your own stamp on my words, and I'll politely ask you to stop. My commentary actually had precisely nothing to do with the set of "current affairs" (as in "the last month") whatsoever, and even less to do with BLM. It's a systemic problem that goes back at least 30 years, and likely more.
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pleated
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Re: waiver

Post by pleated »

It's not the end of the world if a little readjustment is made...
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/09/us/d ... index.html

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Jim
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Re: waiver

Post by Jim »

I expect many would be happy to sign your "waiver" if it included a guarantee of not being attacked by police.

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Re: waiver

Post by moonshadow »

It's ironic where we draw our political lines, police services have been known to be privatized in years past, of course that was disastrous to human rights, now police powers are provided by the state, thus making it a form of socialism. But that's okay with the right wing... but Medicare for all is a bridge too far it seems...

Gheeze... is there anything that actually makes sense in this fuster cluck of a nation??
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Dust
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Re: waiver

Post by Dust »

moonshadow wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:57 am
It's ironic where we draw our political lines, police services have been known to be privatized in years past, of course that was disastrous to human rights, now police powers are provided by the state, thus making it a form of socialism. But that's okay with the right wing... but Medicare for all is a bridge too far it seems...

Gheeze... is there anything that actually makes sense in this fuster cluck of a nation??
I remember talking to a woman who looked the part of an old-school hippie, who happened to be running a used book store. She was there one who pointed out that her store was a "capitalist library". That made my day.

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Re: waiver

Post by moonshadow »

Dust wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:08 pm
moonshadow wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:57 am
It's ironic where we draw our political lines, police services have been known to be privatized in years past, of course that was disastrous to human rights, now police powers are provided by the state, thus making it a form of socialism. But that's okay with the right wing... but Medicare for all is a bridge too far it seems...

Gheeze... is there anything that actually makes sense in this fuster cluck of a nation??
I remember talking to a woman who looked the part of an old-school hippie, who happened to be running a used book store. She was there one who pointed out that her store was a "capitalist library". That made my day.
Yeah... I suppose she's right. Whereas with an actual public library, it doesn't cost anything to read.
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Re: waiver

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:16 pm
[.... W]ith an actual public library, it doesn't cost anything to read.
Why do you think that libraries are always on the cusp of being shut down?

They're continually under that threat now because they contain information -- codified thought -- that might, just maybe, cause a few of the intelligent and curious to start asking some very hard and nasty questions about how things have gotten as bad as they have.
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Re: waiver

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Read your own words you said its not about dissolving or disbanding the police but in some cases that may be necessary so you are not going to disband unless you think it is necessary

I know what your intended meaning was. If you said something like "its not cut and dry or another phrase .. But in this specific case where it was how a white officer treated a black individual
Honest to God Dan! just what is this BS caviling of yours supposed to be accomplishing?

Everyone knows I often back you and often take on Carl, but in this case you're not discussing the topic, you're not even arguing a point; you're just being argumentative for its own sake.

Like Carl said, this is what's wrong with this country. When someone takes a position contrary to your own and makes solid clarifying points that you can't refute, do you concede the points, learn from their input and modify your position? Hell no! You come up with a BS ad hominen or nitpicky counterstroke.

Nuance is not an effete intellectual nicety; it's the subtlety that makes compromise possible. That latter isn't a dirty word; it's what our Constitution is based on and what has made our country work when it has worked well. Don't believe me? Read some history by noteworthy historians.
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Dust
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Re: waiver

Post by Dust »

crfriend wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:37 pm
moonshadow wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:16 pm
[.... W]ith an actual public library, it doesn't cost anything to read.
Why do you think that libraries are always on the cusp of being shut down?

They're continually under that threat now because they contain information -- codified thought -- that might, just maybe, cause a few of the intelligent and curious to start asking some very hard and nasty questions about how things have gotten as bad as they have.
Umm... Or they are just under-used and the budget is tight? It may be "free" to walk in and read, or even borrow a book, but they cost money to run, and that comes from limited taxpayer resources.

Censorship is an issue, but most of the information there, and much more, can be found online...

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