Protests

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Jim
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Re: Protests

Post by Jim »

Most of the calls to defund the police are not total defunding. The idea is that many things that the police approach in a violent way could be done in other ways.
I'm not sure how well it would work, but every increasing police budgets have been tragic.
Here is what the proponents are saying:

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Ralph
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Re: Protests

Post by Ralph »

Uncle Al wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:47 pm
This "Topic" IS in the off-topic section where almost anything goes.
Really? I swear, when I wrote that it seemed like it was in the "advocacy" forum. If I was mistaken, I withdraw my objection! And I'll make an appointment with my optometrist to get new glasses :oops:
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Re: Protests

Post by Ralph »

Jim wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:19 am
Most of the calls to defund the police are not total defunding. The idea is that many things that the police approach in a violent way could be done in other ways.
The people advocating for that should be clearer in their messaging, then. If we (the general public) only see "defund the police", it doesn't come across as a plan that any thought at all has been given. We're just waiting to see what happens the next time somebody calls 911 for an assault or a robbery.

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Re: Protests

Post by Shilo »

If you want know what defunding the police looks like go no further than the UK. Police forces over the entire country have suffered funding cuts for years. The police now openly admit that they no longer investigate “minor” crimes. Over the weekend they did not attempt to stop “protestors” toppling a statue and damaging property because they did not have enough men to do so. Police were injured in London while attempting to stop riots.
In my neighbourhood we were told they could not tell us the exact number on duty but they did not have enough officers to send to 3 incidents over night. De fund the police and lawlessness increases. Who will defund the criminals?
The vast majority of the police are hardworking ordinary people They reflect the views of society in general. Sad to say there are still many racists in our midst. It’s easy to blame a minority for your own lack of success. Educate the public instead. It’s no good just doing it in schools when the kids are fed poison at home.
:roll:

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Jim
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Re: Protests

Post by Jim »

Ralph wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:33 pm
Jim wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:19 am
Most of the calls to defund the police are not total defunding. The idea is that many things that the police approach in a violent way could be done in other ways.
The people advocating for that should be clearer in their messaging, then. If we (the general public) only see "defund the police", it doesn't come across as a plan that any thought at all has been given. We're just waiting to see what happens the next time somebody calls 911 for an assault or a robbery.
I agree the messaging should be clearer.

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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Protests

Post by Fred in Skirts »

The cries of defund the Police should be taken very seriously. One reason is they do not want to just defund them they want to disband them altogether. Some of the news (sic) media have even gone along with this idea.

So what will happen if the police are removed, well lets see.....
1. There will be no help if you are attacked or robbed.
2. No one will investigate murders or robberies.
3. You will not be safe in your own home.
4. The criminals will have the upper hand at all times.

So what are you to do when this happens, crawl into some hidey hole some where and hope the criminals don't find you.. Or do you get some firepower and send the criminal to a hole in the ground where no one will find them.

It will be your choice no one will be there to help.
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Jim
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Re: Protests

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Fred in Skirts wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:20 am
The cries of defund the Police should be taken very seriously. One reason is they do not want to just defund them they want to disband them altogether.
It might be better to look at what advocates of defunding the police say.
TESSA STUART wrote:Defunding the police does not mean stripping a department entirely of its budget, or abolishing it altogether. It’s just about scaling police budgets back and reallocating those resources to other agencies, says Lynda Garcia, policing campaign director at the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. “A lot of what we advocate for is investment in community services — education, medical access… You can call it ‘defunding,’ but it’s just about directing or balancing the budget in a different way.”

The concept is simple: When cities start investing in community services, they reduce the need to call police in instances when police officers’ specific skill set isn’t required. “If someone is dealing with a mental health crisis, or someone has a substance abuse disorder, we are calling other entities that are better equipped to help these folks,” Garcia says.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... -1007254/

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crfriend
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Re: Protests

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Fred in Skirts wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:20 am
The cries of defund the Police should be taken very seriously. One reason is they do not want to just defund them they want to disband them altogether.
That does not seem to be the intent, although a small group will have you believe that it is. What most are looking for is more transparency and more accountability. I would certainly go along with the notion of de-militarising the police in the United States, and there absolutely needs to be proper and robust civil oversight of the police. They need to stop acting like an army of occupation and return to their roots as a civil order-keeping force, in the vein of Sir Robert Peel's original vision.
It will be your choice no one will be there to help.
The best rejoinder to that comment I've ever heard is that "when seconds count the police are only minutes away". Most of the time we're on our own, and we forget that at our peril.
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moonshadow
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Re: Protests

Post by moonshadow »

Defund the police? I hope it's not by wages. I make more money than most cops in my region, and considering the job they have to do... that's pretty sad. In some smaller towns, police officers scratch out a measly $30k per year.

We always talk about increasing teacher salary to increase the quality of education, what about increasing police officer salary, including base salary, however in return officers must submit to an extreme vetting process, and any documented misconduct results in termination. Perhaps that would increase the quality of policing services by attracting more level headed candidates?

As it stands if a Tennessee State Trooper is even accused of certain crimes (domestic abuse being one of them) they are immediately terminated.

Anyway... going to throw my needle to the right for a spell...

The left wants our guns (and they do... let's not kid ourselves)

Now they want our cops too!

What the hell do we have left? Citizens arrest? Pfft....

Defund the police? Gonna vote "no" on that one friends....
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Shilo
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Re: Protests

Post by Shilo »

moonshadow wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:38 pm
As it stands if a Tennessee State Trooper is even accused of certain crimes (domestic abuse being one of them) they are immediately terminated
Is that really true? What happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty?. If it is it seems like a charter for some malicious allegations
:roll:

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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Protests

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Shilo wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 2:47 pm
moonshadow wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:38 pm
As it stands if a Tennessee State Trooper is even accused of certain crimes (domestic abuse being one of them) they are immediately terminated
Is that really true? What happened to presumed innocent until proven guilty?. If it is it seems like a charter for some malicious allegations
Yes and not only in Tennessee but in many other states, counties and cities across the country.
In my area they have set in place a rule that any officer accused of a misdemeanor shall be put on leave without pay, for a felony out right termination. No trials or hearings. And for a job that is paying wages that are less than welfare recipients get. It is no wonder no one really wants the job anymore. All of these regulations and rules were put in place to placate a small percentage of the population. And look where we are now!!!!
We are S O L!!! :x :x :x :x
Fred :kiltdance:

"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle."


"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951

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Fred in Skirts
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Re: Protests

Post by Fred in Skirts »

The family of George Floyd, the black man killed while in police custody in Minneapolis on Memorial Day, has sent a letter to the globalist United Nations to ask for its help in disarming police officers in the United States of America.
The UN has no authority to do this but it could lead to even more hatred if they try.
Mayor Bill de Blasio Vows to Cut NYPD Funding While Violent Crime Soars
It just shows how stupid some people are!!
Fred :kiltdance:

"The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle."


"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not" Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951

Ray
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Re: Protests

Post by Ray »

I would say that living in a country that worships gins is pretty stupid myself, but I appreciate that most have no choice. That leaves the pro-gun individuals whose sanity I would question. But that’s just me. I know that opinions differ on this.

Returning to safer ground, Jim’s posted explanation above seems to be helpful in providing some clarity on the matter.

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Jim
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Re: Protests

Post by Jim »

Fred in Skirts wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:06 pm
The family of George Floyd, the black man killed while in police custody in Minneapolis on Memorial Day, has sent a letter to the globalist United Nations to ask for its help in disarming police officers in the United States of America.
Not exactly. Requested recommendations, not disarming. Breitbart cites this NBC article and reinterpreted it, which was then repeated by rightwing sites.
George Floyd's family appeals to U.N. for support for police reform

George Floyd’s family and his legal team released on Monday a letter they sent to the United Nations requesting recommendations for police reform in the U.S.

The group sent a letter on June 3 to one of the international body’s working groups asking for support for the end of the provision of military equipment and military-type training for police, the teaching of deescalation techniques, independent prosecutions and autopsies for “extrajudicial” police killings, and more.

“When a group of people of any nation have been systemically deprived of their universal human right to life by its government for decades, it must appeal to the international community for its support and to the United Nations for its intervention,” Floyd’s family attorney Ben Crump said in a press release.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/li ... blogHeader

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Re: Protests

Post by crfriend »

Jim wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:41 pm
[...] Requested recommendations, not disarming. Breitbart cites this NBC article and reinterpreted it, which was then repeated by rightwing sites.
OK, I figured that'd be closer to the facts, and note how well they dovetail into my earlier commentary about de-militarisation, robust civil oversight, and civil accountability.

The alt.right is well known for spewing spin that will enrage their congregation, but that does not make their spin either true or factual. News, rationally and properly presented, allows the reader (or listener) to properly engage his own mind to form an opinion, not reinforce something already held.

The United States is already in hot water from the United Nations regarding its record on human rights, and that ought to be an embarrassment to each and every US citizen and needs to be remembered every time we visit the ballot box. Sixty years ago the US was lauded for its record on human rights; now it's close to being on the "most wanted list". We need to do better.

Vastly more often than not, the "knee-jerk reaction" to something is the wrong one -- and that's a key problem in mob behaviour. One needs to cogitate on how things work before pronouncing sentence. We can do better.
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