Protests

[crfriend]

Sorry Faldaguy but I tried to read the article and it made me sick to my stomach at the garbage propaganda that was being put forth.

You were warned that it was a leftist article.

I didn't have much use for the rhetoric, but the numbers are believable based on other sources so make of that what you will. Going in, I set my mental filters to elide -- on the fly -- much of the detritus. That's a useful skill to have. I can read alt.right and alt.left spouts without too much pain so long as there are germs of fact in them, What bothers me is when I spend more than about 30 seconds and there is precisely nothing of substance to be had -- and at that point I switch it off.

[Ray]

Interesting numbers.

For those from outside the UK, you may wonder why stats were used for only one part of the UK - England. This is broadly down to the way the UK is governed: statistics are gathered for separate parts of the UK but not aggregated. As the biggest part of the UK, the stats for England are the most representative.

It’s a bit daft but there you go.

Focus on the numbers. They paint an interesting picture.

[oldsalt1]

Re the article Why is it that if a left leaning publication presents figures they are assumed true until proven false and at the same time
if a right leaning publication presents facts they are considered false until prover true.

Why is it that the press is always complaining about our second amendment rights to bear arms ..Yet I haven't heard a single comment about the weapons being carried by those who took over parts of Seattle Including many assault weapons

[Ray]

You mean the white rednecks with their AR15s?

Yes, I thought that was worrying too.

It’s so sad that you live in a society that requires a second amendment. It can’t be easy, living in fear.

[crfriend]

It’s so sad that you live in a society that requires a second amendment. It can’t be easy, living in fear.

I live in infinitely more fear of the State and the police than I do of "white rednecks and their AR-15s". The rednecks usually don't cause trouble.

Too, fear -- mostly of the State -- is pretty much the only thing that keeps the USA on an even remotely even keel these days. Everything else has broken down. I've been badgered by the police several times over the course of my lifetime -- including twice at gunpoint; I have not even once seen a "civilian" (to use the contemptuous tone that the police use for "little people") wield a firearm in anger. Power hath its privilege.

[Freedomforall]

It’s so sad that you live in a society that requires a second amendment. It can’t be easy, living in fear.

I live in infinitely more fear of the State and the police than I do of "white rednecks and their AR-15s". The rednecks usually don't cause trouble.

Too, fear -- mostly of the State -- is pretty much the only thing that keeps the USA on an even remotely even keel these days. Everything else has broken down. I've been badgered by the police several times over the course of my lifetime -- including twice at gunpoint; I have not even once seen a "civilian" (to use the contemptuous tone that the police use for "little people") wield a firearm in anger. Power hath its privilege.

Absolute power corrupts. I am sorry that you experienced that.

[moonshadow]

While we're on the subject of abuse of police power.... how about civil forfeiture?

Or is losing your home, automobiles, or any cash you might be carrying WITHOUT DUE PROCESS more of that "crybaby liberal bullsh!t" the neo-cons like to rant about?

[crfriend]

Absolute power corrupts. I am sorry that you experienced that.

It wasn't your fault; you weren't there. But thanks for the thought!

how about civil forfeiture?

That's in violation of the Constitution (or at least the Bill of Rights), pure and simple, but the USA hasn't operated under its Constitution for at least 20 years and likely more.

[Faldaguy]

by oldsalt1 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:35 pm
Re the article Why is it that if a left leaning publication presents figures they are assumed true until proven false and at the same time
if a right leaning publication presents facts they are considered false until prover true.

Why is it that the press is always complaining about our second amendment rights to bear arms ..Yet I haven't heard a single comment about the weapons being carried by those who took over parts of Seattle Including many assault weapons

I don't buy these statements as factually based; but hear diversionary allegations. Indeed there have been quite a few comments about the weapons: Interestingly enough apparently the lack thereof in the "take-over" of Seattle (Autonomous zone) upset Fox News so much that they Doctored photographs to imply there were weapons and violence --more amazing, today they acknowledged having done so and sort-of apologized for making things up. If you want to talk weapons -- how about those bringing them into the State house in Michigan--who was that? These protests have elements of many organizations as well as individuals a few of whom are just out to make trouble. Rather than attacking the protesters, by far majority just upset about the violence and abuse, let's talk about how to right the inequities that brought them out. Protesting is another of those Constitutional rights.

[Sinned]

I haven't read in detail every one of the posts here but with your police there isn't an authority that holds individual officers accountable for their actions. Over here we have the Independent Police Complaints Authority that investigates every instance of a complaint against a police officer. The Authority is independent of the police force as its name suggests and can prosecute where three is the evidence to do so. You need the same in the U.S. desperately. To have the police investigate its own officers' actions is subject to abuse and cover up and is probably responsible for so much of the mistrust endemic in your society. Where officers can just shoot someone and know that very little notice will be taken is just wrong.

[moonshadow]

The Authority is independent of the police force as its name suggests and can prosecute where three is the evidence to do so. You need the same in the U.S. desperately.

We need a lot that we'll never get. Our masters won't allow it.

[Fred in Skirts]

In view of just what all the riots are about and what we have been subjected to here is something to think about.....

killings chart.jpeg

Where are all of the black killings taking place?? Certainly not with the police...

[Ray]

It’s rather more than that. You don’t have to be killed to experience racism. You don’t have to be killed to be discriminated against.

I’d like the black members of this forum to have their say. Either way. What all of us should do is listen with an open mind.

[Faldaguy]

by Fred in Skirts » Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:42 am

In view of just what all the riots are about and what we have been subjected to here is something to think about.....
killings chart.jpeg
Where are all of the black killings taking place?? Certainly not with the police...

Fred, can you provide a link for this chart. I've tried entering the site listed at the bottom in several ways -- it all comes back, page does not exist. There is a similar page, for 2013 that does exist -- with quite different data. What the chart shows is suspect in my mind as it appears as if it has been altered to present a different agenda, so I'd like to see the original. If you google for similar information, most of the listings seem to paint a different picture -- at least on a quick overview this past hour. In any case -- we have an excessive amount of killing taking place, regardless of race; and a police force that has been heavily armed and keyed up to attack without appropriate training; and certainly without any independent review such as Dennis mentioned they have -- ours is almost exclusively "internal review" and DA's that work hand-in-hand with the police which is a natural, understandable connection for them but does not provide balance or unfettered review of all the facts. We can do better.

[Sinned]

I'm with faldaguy here. I read the article and noted the inflammatory language and bias but you can strip those out and look at the figures without any physical damage. In the UK, police aren't armed and it needs senior police authority for armed police to be used on the street. Any police shooting is major news. But then we have gun control and few ordinary citizens possess forearms. Those few the reasons are probably for hunting or rifle sports such as Olympic shooting events. I like it this way since the chance of your average person on the street being involved in any shooting is very low. I have been on York since 1983 and I don't recall any shootings in our city. The major reason for the police use of arms is in terrorist crimes. From what I read ( and I am not an expert ) it's similar for other European countries. So cut the melodramatics UA articles can be read and the pertinent information extracted.