How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

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Uncle Al
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Uncle Al »

Check out this video by Candice Owens

https://www.facebook.com/realCandaceOwe ... 70461345/
George Floyd was high on drugs when this occurred.

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Ray »

Not sure what your video showed. I saw a horse stuck in mud.

Whether or not Floyd was high on drugs or not; you don’t murder a man for that. I’ve seen footage of Buffalo NY police push down an elderly protestor and leave him alone, prone, blood pouring out his ear. That’s appalling. What sort of fascist racist police does NY state - or the wider US have?

#blacklivesmatter

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by moonshadow »

Candice makes good points, but I suspect this thing is just going to have to run its course.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Shilo »

Ray wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:54 pm
Not sure what your video showed. I saw a horse stuck in mud.

Whether or not Floyd was high on drugs or not; you don’t murder a man for that. I’ve seen footage of Buffalo NY police push down an elderly protestor and leave him alone, prone, blood pouring out his ear. That’s appalling. What sort of fascist racist police does NY state - or the wider US have?

#blacklivesmatter
I saw that too and was shocked at the reaction or lack of it of their colleagues. See my comment in the “PROTEST” thread. I can understand it if it was an accident but they all behaved as if it was an everyday occurrence.
:roll:

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by crfriend »

Shilo wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 10:46 am
I can understand it if it was an accident but they all behaved as if it was an everyday occurrence.
Therein lies the rub -- it is an everyday occurrence.

For every one of these killings that gets filmed and hyped there are dozens that never are. Dozens of empty dinner plates, dozens of shattered families, and nothing ever happens to stop it.

Internal Affairs calls the killings "justified" and the matter is quietly swept under the rug. The primary problem is that there is no longer effective civilian oversight into policing activities, and the police have set themselves up above the law. The rest is what naturally happens afterwards. They behave like this -- or, put more properly, the dregs of them -- for the basest of possible reasons: because they can.

There are plenty of peace officers in this country who are aghast at the situation -- and for good reason. It impugns their standing in their communities and makes people suspicious of them and their motives. It would be in their interest to stand up and condemn the perpetrators. Will they? Or will the "Thin Blue Line" hold fast?
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by pelmut »

crfriend wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:48 am
... and nothing ever happens to stop it.
That's the key to it.  If the officers concerned had been immediately relieved of their duties pending an investgation into possible murder or manslaughter charges, the public reaction would have been much reduced.  Instead, the people in authority tried to cover it up, ignore it and minimise it, it took several days and a huge public reaction before they did anything about it.  That's what has led to such anger (but that does not justify rioting and looting).

The next step of the authorities in cases like this is to blame the victim - I see they have been a bit slow off the mark with that one, but they are getting there.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by crfriend »

pelmut wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:58 pm
If the officers concerned had been immediately relieved of their duties pending an investgation into possible murder or manslaughter charges, the public reaction would have been much reduced.
Therein lies the rub -- the investigation. In the US, investigations into police misconduct are carried out by the police themselves with no civil oversight -- so the outcomes are almost always a foregone conclusion, Even if "internal affairs" decides to fire and charge the miscreant, getting a conviction is close to impossible because the jurors know that their names and identities were taken down and won't vote to convict for fear of reprisal. We have reached the world of Ridley Scott's Blade Runner where, "If you're not Cop you're Little People."
The next step of the authorities in cases like this is to blame the victim - I see they have been a bit slow off the mark with that one, but they are getting there.
This is usually the way it gets handled here. And, in another six weeks, it'll never have happened and "Nothing to see here. Move on." will be the mantra.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Sinned »

Well, you may be right about the police. Maybe part of the problem with situation with police deaths/murders is that the police I investigate their own crimes which is open to abuse and suspicion. Here we have the Independent Police Complaints commission I dependent of the police whose re is to investigate any situation where a potential action has been committed by a policeman. Maybe if you had something similar then things won't be or even appear to be brushed under the carpet. When any or organisation can carry on as a law unto themselves without any form of justice or comeback for its victims then it's no wonder there is so much distrust and violent protest.

Just sayin'.
Last edited by Sinned on Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Ray »

Good point. Accountability aligned to an independent viewpoint.

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Stu »

The case of Mr Floyd, and the man charged with his murder, should be thoroughly and objectively investigated and all aspects should be made public. Nothing should be concealed because it detracts from a preferred narrative. That goes without saying. If black citizens claim they are routinely subjected to harassment or discrimination by the police or other agency, they should be able to register complains and these, too, should be fully examined and with some kind of independent and external oversight. From what I have seen, there is a prima facie case of unlawful killing, but only a jury can decide whether that has occurred and to what level. Unless and until such a verdict is delivered, we should not call this a "murder" as it is legally inaccurate and also prejudicial. If the accused is convicted, then they will rightly throw the book at him, as they would with anyone else.

Whether people agree with her broader politics or not, Candace Owens makes some legitimate points and she has every right to say what she believes to be true. Further - nothing from this case in any way justifies some of the crimes we have seen being committed in the course of the protests. Mr Floyd's case has not been swept under any carpets: a man has been arrested and charged, and the law has to be allowed to take its course. If rioting and looting persist, then the authorities have every right to meet such force with force, utilising the full resources of the state, including the military if necessary, to protect the wider population.

All lives matter.

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by pelmut »

Stu wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:24 am
Mr Floyd's case has not been swept under any carpets:
Not for lack of trying. The police showed no sign of taking action against the officers concerned until after the public outcry had been going on for some time. The outcry was justified but the rioting was not.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Stu »

pelmut wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:11 pm
The police showed no sign of taking action against the officers concerned until after the public outcry had been going on for some time.
That's appalling.
pelmut wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:11 pm
The outcry was justified but the rioting was not.
I completely agree.

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by crfriend »

Stu wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:33 pm
pelmut wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:11 pm
The outcry was justified but the rioting was not.
I completely agree.
You, I, and likely every level-headed straight-thinking soul on the planet. However, mobs are very ugly things and sometimes it takes only the tiniest of sparks to turn a large crowd dangerous -- especially if emotions are already running high.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by pelmut »

Stu and I have agreed on something at last, just savour the moment!
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by moonshadow »

pelmut wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:29 pm
Stu and I have agreed on something at last, just savour the moment!
And so it was... on June 8th 2020... pelmut and stu agreed on something...

Indeed 2020 is turning into quite a year! :lol:
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