The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

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Faldaguy
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The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by Faldaguy »

Is the steely determination of skirtcafe members to flaunt their "individualism" a risk to society?

    John Davis, in a provocative article raises the question of what he labels the "freedom virus".  This particular article is primarily from a historical USA perspective, but many of the tenets are applicable to many, if not most governments.  He would contend few, if any, governments are "virus" free -- that in fact the US populist is so infected with the idea of individual freedom (the freedom virus) that the society is perpetually riding the brink of collapse as we wrestle with a balance between the social good and our concept of freedom. [The article is very much tied to Covid-19.]

   He goes on to attribute many of our failures to this freedom virus.  I suspect some portions will ring true to many in the skirtcafe site, and all of us will likely be 'up in arms' with a visceral reactionary response to some parts of it.  Provocative or not for itself,  it made me wonder how our own obsession with the freedom virus with regard to men in non-traditional contemporary duds is a contributor to the societal outcomes Davis attributes to it!

   Are you infected?  (Let's not flame or focus on the 'isms' but engage in the concept of individual freedom impacting our social structure, from the token perspective of men in skirts.)

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/04/09/freedom-virus/

kingfish
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by kingfish »

Wow.

That article was sufficiently grandiloquent in its rhetoric, I'm not sure whether he lauded or disparaged Hayek.

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crfriend
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by crfriend »

Is this something trying to masquerade as satire? Or satire trying to masquerade as reality?

The mess that the United States is in now is down to greed, inequality, and laissez-faire capitalism. Follow the money, and you will find the culprits.

The "article" fell on its face within the first paragraph. The "Pilgrims/Puritans" weren't "forced out" because of their beliefs, they opted to self-segregate in the Colonies, where their own peculiar interpretation of scripture could be enforced as law. The rest of the world was in the process of growing up, and that particular batch didn't want to go along. So they struck out for the New World. It's a pity that what happened at Roanoke didn't happen in Massachusetts. The country, and likely the world, would have been a better place for it.

As far as "neoliberalism" is described, that's better characterised as "libertarianism" which is a peculiarly pernicious offshoot of neoconservatism.

I seriously think a satirical article got misclassified somewhere. There is a reason why political satire is now a thoroughly dead art: one cannot tell it from reality, save by nitpicking at the internal logic -- which usually falls flat on its face.
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Shilo
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by Shilo »

Do what you will, if it harms no other! As far as I know skirt wearing harms no other, neither do religious beliefs as long as they don’t impinge on any one else’s right not to share those beliefs. Not respecting rules regarding self isolation, physical distancing and travelling unnecessarily however is a different matter completely.
Don’t confuse freedom with being anti social ( cf asocial).
:roll:

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Freedomforall
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by Freedomforall »

"with liberty and justice for all", this does not include the Native Americans that we infected with diseased blankets etc. Yeah, don't even get me on that tangent!

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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by beachlion »

Most of my life I spent in Europe. I was quite surprised to see how some people interpret "freedom." It looks like it is overruling all other things in life. Everything has to be put to the side of the road for that freedom. That somebody might suffer from somebody else's drive to freedom. That freedom is of course also the freedom from government.

I have no problem if my freedom is limited because of an emergency. As long as the limitation is helpful in that emergency and the higher ups are able to convince me with good reasoning.

The most bizarre comment I read on the Internet was:"No @#$%& government is telling me to stay home" where they were discussing the various approaches of some states and cities. To me that is typical redneck lingo.
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Freedomforall
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by Freedomforall »

beachlion wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:31 pm
Most of my life I spent in Europe. I was quite surprised to see how some people interpret "freedom." It looks like it is overruling all other things in life. Everything has to be put to the side of the road for that freedom. That somebody might suffer from somebody else's drive to freedom. That freedom is of course also the freedom from government.

I have no problem if my freedom is limited because of an emergency. As long as the limitation is helpful in that emergency and the higher ups are able to convince me with good reasoning.

The most bizarre comment I read on the Internet was:"No @#$%& government is telling me to stay home" where they were discussing the various approaches of some states and cities. To me that is typical redneck lingo.
My problem is post emergency protocols when liberties taken are never given back.

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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by skirtyscot »

Well, it would only take about 100,000,000 of you voting for a president who would give them back again. And, lucky you, you get your chance this year! If only one of the parties would pick a candidate who promised to do it ...
Keep on skirting,

Alastair

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Freedomforall
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by Freedomforall »

skirtyscot wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:38 pm
Well, it would only take about 100,000,000 of you voting for a president who would give them back again. And, lucky you, you get your chance this year! If only one of the parties would pick a candidate who promised to do it ...
Money and politics will almost insure that no suitable candidate will run.

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beachlion
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by beachlion »

Freedomforall wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:33 pm
beachlion wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:31 pm
Most of my life I spent in Europe. I was quite surprised to see how some people interpret "freedom." It looks like it is overruling all other things in life. Everything has to be put to the side of the road for that freedom. That somebody might suffer from somebody else's drive to freedom. That freedom is of course also the freedom from government.

I have no problem if my freedom is limited because of an emergency. As long as the limitation is helpful in that emergency and the higher ups are able to convince me with good reasoning.

The most bizarre comment I read on the Internet was:"No @#$%& government is telling me to stay home" where they were discussing the various approaches of some states and cities. To me that is typical redneck lingo.
My problem is post emergency protocols when liberties taken are never given back.
Those measures should have an expiration date. That date could be shifted if the need is there but the economy will have the last say in Costa Capitalista.
All progress takes place outside the comfort zone - M J Bobak

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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by moonshadow »

Beachlion and Freedomforall...

[Represent] the two opposing voices forever in my thoughts.. :lol:

I find myself in agreement with both.

Perhaps we could come to a compromise, as was put in the late 90s movie, Austin Powers,

Freedom with responsibility

Like beachlion I have no issue with these measures for the time being, I'm satisfied that the threat is real and valid.

However, like FFA, I'm watching this space VERY carefully. Let's be vigilant that another BS "patriot act" doesn't hatch out of this.

We are right to distrust our elected officials, and to do so is not only our right, but our duty.
-Moon Shadow
"How do you propose to control me when you can't even control yourself?"

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crfriend
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by crfriend »

Freedomforall wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:33 pm
My problem is post emergency protocols when liberties taken are never given back.
Precisely. How many of the civil liberties that we had pre-9/11 have been returned to us? Zero.

Thus, I see no reason for any to be returned this time 'round.
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by crfriend »

skirtyscot wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:38 pm
Well, it would only take about 100,000,000 of you voting for a president who would give them back again. And, lucky you, you get your chance this year! If only one of the parties would pick a candidate who promised to do it ...
The problem is that the "elections" here are entirely rigged. None of the candidates on the ballot will align properly with the needs of the general populace. They will only align with the oligarchs. Take a look at the way that modern Russia is run. The USA is run the same way. At least the Russians are honest about it.
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Coder
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by Coder »

crfriend wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:42 pm
Freedomforall wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:33 pm
My problem is post emergency protocols when liberties taken are never given back.
Precisely. How many of the civil liberties that we had pre-9/11 have been returned to us? Zero.

Thus, I see no reason for any to be returned this time 'round.
What frosts me - FISA. FISA was abused by the outgoing administration against a political enemy in the opposite party. You would think the opposing party - who was harmed by FISA - would say, hrmmm, "This is a bad thing, we should get rid of it". What did they do? Reauthorize it. Yeah. Two sides of the same coin.

Don't get me started on the Kabuki theater TSA provides...

Faldaguy
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Re: The Freedom Virus: Are you infected?

Post by Faldaguy »

skirtyscot wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:38 pm
Well, it would only take about 100,000,000 of you voting for a president who would give them back again. And, lucky you, you get your chance this year! If only one of the parties would pick a candidate who promised to do it ...

CRFriend repllied:
The problem is that the "elections" here are entirely rigged. None of the candidates on the ballot will align properly with the needs of the general populace. They will only align with the oligarchs. Take a look at the way that modern Russia is run. The USA is run the same way. At least the Russians are honest about it.
Back in 2004 Diebold electronic voting machines placed in Ohio got enormous press; many investigations, studies, and books all pretty much confirming rigging and tampering with the vote, but did anything get done about it -- NO. It too was also a matter of "follow the money" and the powers that be. YES, US Elections are rigged, in many more ways than meet the eye.

Getting back to skirts, I rather like Shilo's conclusion:
by Shilo » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:27
Do what you will, if it harms no other! As far as I know skirt wearing harms no other, neither do religious beliefs as long as they don’t impinge on any one else’s right not to share those beliefs. Not respecting rules regarding self isolation, physical distancing and travelling unnecessarily however is a different matter completely.
Don’t confuse freedom with being anti social ( cf asocial).
Let's just hope the "rules" of this emergency do not lead to same permanent "protections" we were extended with the Patriot Act.

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