Gas prices...

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moonshadow
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by moonshadow »

pelmut wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:35 am
Perhaps someone from the left side of the pond can explain something that has puzzled me for a while: how do Americans distinguish between Gas [gasoline] prices and Gas [domestic fuel] prices?
I think it comes down to context usually. When speaking casually with others about the cost of natural gas (which is only available in cities and some towns) we might say something like "gas rates". The word "rates" indicates we're talking about the metered commodity of natural gas. When we talk of "gas prices" we're talking of what you all call "petrol". While the price "at the pump" is technically a "rate" we don't treat it as such.

Additionally natural gas prices are more or less a monopoly, meaning it is what it is, there is no shopping around as it's a hard piped utility. Gasoline obviously is more competitive in communities.

But yeah... context.

To add confusion most rural people like myself who use gas actually use propane, which is also a "gas" and like gasoline is something we can shop around for and not really a "utility" however most people I know just call it "propane".

Any appliance or heater we buy usually has to be field converted from nat to lp gas as the orifices for nat gas are larger than propane... which isn't even a gas when it's in the tank... hence the abbreviation, LP (liquid petroleum), it only turns to gas when opened to atmospheric pressure.

Around here natural gas seems to cost a fraction of what propane runs. Most people just fill 100lb bottles locally and heat with propane space heaters, I myself lease a 250 gallon tank from a local company, they come by and fill it on a "will call" basis.

It has been running about $1000 per year to hear my home, but that cost may go up a bit as I've recently installed a gas (propane) range/oven. That said I imagine my electric bill should decrease somewhat by not using electric cooking means.
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by Kilted_John »

^This.

Anyway, where I live, 92 octane premium gas (what would be considered between 98 and 100 RON in Europe) finally dropped about 50 cents from where it was on Monday. Went from $3.92⁹ to $3.49⁹ a gallon.

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Re: Gas prices...

Post by Kirbstone »

B&B,
Yes, in the Republic we're on Euros which are currently about 15% down on Sterling. Variable of course, so petrol at £1.04 would work out at about Eur 1.19-20. The fuel tax system here prices petrol above Diesel by around 10-12 cents so proportionately more of us drive diesels.

Only a few years ago the £ stg was at about Eur 1.50, with fuel prices in the UK to match, so we always tanked up here before getting on the ferry. When you get over into Brexitshire you're caught and have to shell out for their diesel anyway. My little Volvo is a UK import here and thinks in miles, but it runs on the smell of it, so each top-up records 54-58 MPG about which I would never complain.

Right now it's being fixed and I'm running a hired Octavia, which displays Kms and Km/h only. I constantly have to adjust my brain, but as our speed limits and distances are all in Km, it makes sense. The hidden speed cameras everywhere are a real pain. Today I had the afternoon off and it was fine, so I took myself off 100 mi. South to drive across the recently opened Barrow Bridge, whose construction I had been watching. The Skoda is a perfectly satisfactory means of getting around and economical, too.

Tom
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by Shilo »

As around 70% of the sale price is tax in one form or another, the government is going to be in real trouble with the massive fall in demand due to the current zombie apocalypse.
It’s interesting that most Western governments are suddenly able to magic up money to prop up the economy Maybe at last the penny will drop(pun intended) and people will realise its all a trick. A more reasonable price then might be 2 chickens a gallon
:roll:
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by moonshadow »

Shilo wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:00 pm
Maybe at last the penny will drop(pun intended) and people will realise its all a trick
Doubtful.

Once this is behind us we'll be back to ranting over various "isms"...

As I've indicated in other threads, my issue is not with people getting help, it's with people complaining about the system helping others (particularly when the overall times are good) while at the same time those same people have no issue taking help when they're in trouble.

My issue is a populace that suddenly cares about everyone's healthcare when no less than two damned months ago 2/3's of the American culture was totally cool with letting uninsured people suffer and perish for lack of medical care.

And within twelve months from now... once this is behind us, we'll be back to our old selfish, self centered, and greedy ways.

*spit*

Additionally for the better part of three decades our wealthy elite have systematically sent most of our core manufacturing ability over to China rendering us a mostly service economy, that has no major ability to produce anything, now we are in extreme shortages of medical supplies, hospitals are about to run out of basic provisions... why? Because all of our goods come from...

...CHINA! And right now... China is taking care of themselves first... and can we blame them? Wouldn't America do the same thing if the roles were reversed?

Behold, America... spring 2020.. a shining example of what happens when wild west capitalism runs amuck. We have most of our medical supplies outsourced to a hostile communist nation, we have our own citizens hoarding hand sanitizer, toilet paper, and face mask and selling them for insane markups!

Yes sir.... THE CHICKENS HAVE COME HOME TO ROOST.

But will we learn?

Nope!

And this thread can can locked for all I care... because the United States of America has been LOCKED for almost a month now... why? Because everyone stuck their head in the sand and nobody wanted to deal with this before it was too late...
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by PatJ »

And the price is falling because:

People are driving less and therefore using less fuel and creating a surplus.

Imagine (if you will) vehicles that do not use gasoline for power - the reduced
in fuel prices would be the norm, cleaner air that Los Angeles is experiencing would
become the new standard and the power the Middle Eastern Countries have over the
world's economy would be broken.

Now all we have to do is put people into public office who are willing to work to
bring this "new order" about.

I'll climb back down off of my soap box now and sit behind the potted palm near
the front door.
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by crfriend »

PatJ wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:47 pm
And the price is falling because:

People are driving less and therefore using less fuel and creating a surplus.
The problem is that they're driving less for all the wrong reasons. They're driving less because they're effectively on lockdown (We may as well use "corrections" terminology here.) and are pinned in place with nowhere really to go. Amusements, bars, and restaurants are shut down, workplaces are either shut down or people are trying to work from home, leaving the only place to go being the grocery store (where you can't even buy bog-roll -- and that's going to become a real issue in about a month's time) or drug-stores.

Many are also not getting paid, so there's no "recreational travel" whatsoever amongst the general public.
I'll climb back down off of my soap box now and sit behind the potted palm near the front door.
I'd be wary of sitting next to windows. When the "Little Economy" (which is the one that depends on work and wages and encompasses 99+% of the population) fails catastrophically this thing is likely to "go critical" (yes, in a nuclear sense) and explode. It's not going to be pretty. The top 0.001% aren't even going to notice until it starts getting violent. And desperation frequently triggers violence.
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:58 pm
The top 0.001% aren't even going to notice until it starts getting violent. And desperation frequently triggers violence.
I'm not so sure, I think the elite will eventually prop this thing back up (hence my comment on putting all this behind us in twelve months) because the elite know they need us more than we need them.

They'll dole down a little stipend to get the working class back on our feet, then once we start to get traction they will go back to brainwashing the masses to hate and blame each other for our troubles rather than blame them (the elite).

The elite are not stupid nor are they blind... that's why they're the elite. The working class proletariats mostly are.

That's why we're seeing a sudden about face of the nation's politicians... they never cared about us... only the ultra wealthy.
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by Shilo »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:08 pm
crfriend wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:58 pm
The top 0.001% aren't even going to notice until it starts getting violent. And desperation frequently triggers violence.
I'm not so sure, I think the elite will eventually prop this thing back up (hence my comment on putting all this behind us in twelve months) because the elite know they need us more than we need them.

They'll dole down a little stipend to get the working class back on our feet, then once we start to get traction they will go back to brainwashing the masses to hate and blame each other for our troubles rather than blame them (the elite).

The elite are not stupid nor are they blind... that's why they're the elite. The working class proletariats mostly are.

That's why we're seeing a sudden about face of the nation's politicians... they never cared about us... only the ultra wealthy.
Exactly!! They can’t afford for the system to collapse and for people to feel they have nothing to lose, otherwise we’ll quickly descend to anarchy like in Iraq.
The proletariat are essentially ignorant and easily led. All revolutions actually begin with the middle class.
:roll:
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by Gusto10 »

One has to bear in mind the origin of the gas/petrol which one gets at the pump. In continental Europe vary much, e.g. Along the motor/high way in the Netherland one would pay 1.899/litre while at the same time in Luxembourg it would be 1.219/l. The petrol/gas itself is not the expensive part, it are the taxes. Amongst others sales taxes. Grosso modo the price is 1/3rd for the substance, the rest is tax. On top thereof sales tax. In addition thereto, the Dutch sales tax is levied over services or goods. Same in other countries. But the Dutch government has put a law in place to levy also sales tax over other taxes. In other countries such is not the case end that will cause a difference of about 20 euro cents per litre, going from one country to the other. The other taxes levied aren't percentages but fixed prices per litre, thus even though the price of oil goes rock bottom, the normal taxes levied do not alter, only the sales tax which os a percentage will alter, thus one will see little changes in the total price.
Further more, the LPG. In some countries it's still sold, being a by-product of the fracking of oil. Much cleaner when used. I was informed that in the UK it was provided for a number of years for free, on the continent it was sold for reasonable prices (40 to 60 cents per litre). Even in the present culture of clean, cleaner, cleanest, it's hardly sold anymore.
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Re: Gas prices...

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Shilo wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:29 pm
moonshadow wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:08 pm
crfriend wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:58 pm
The top 0.001% aren't even going to notice until it starts getting violent. And desperation frequently triggers violence.
I'm not so sure, I think the elite will eventually prop this thing back up (hence my comment on putting all this behind us in twelve months) because the elite know they need us more than we need them
Exactly!! They can’t afford for the system to collapse and for people to feel they have nothing to lose, otherwise we’ll quickly descend to anarchy like in Iraq.
The proletariat are essentially ignorant and easily led. All revolutions actually begin with the middle class.
We shall see. I hope I am wrong.

I know that there has been some noise about a few of the elites starting to murmur about "letting a few more crumbs hit the ground before the whole thing collapses" but I'm not sure that all, or even most, of them are on the same page. Right now it still seems that as a class they're bent on extracting the last vestiges of wealth from the lower classes. It's a pity this happened now instead of six months ago because now the die is cast for the November "election" and can't realistically be changed -- if there even is an "election" come November.
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:03 pm
We shall see. I hope I am wrong.

I know that there has been some noise about a few of the elites starting to murmur about "letting a few more crumbs hit the ground before the whole thing collapses" but I'm not sure that all, or even most, of them are on the same page. Right now it still seems that as a class they're bent on extracting the last vestiges of wealth from the lower classes. It's a pity this happened now instead of six months ago because now the die is cast for the November "election" and can't realistically be changed -- if there even is an "election" come November.
What I find interesting is that I've been witnessing cracks in the economy months before covid 19 broke out in the U.S.. And I'm not talking about service industry jobs, I'm talking about core manufacturers. There were a number of local places that were shutting down or planning to later this year. I recall wondering if we were heading into a recession back in December.

Isn't it convenient that covid 19 might have gave us (ahem... T----p) a scapegoat...? Not saying that's what is happening, but it does make me wonder all the same...

I also note that for all our arguments over various "isms" one fact remains...

Two weeks into China's outbreak they were building hospitals in 10 days...

Two weeks into the U.S.'s outbreak all medical supplies were sold out and sanitizer was selling for $300 per bottle online.

Guess which "ism" belongs to whom?

Not saying I support one over the other, but I am saying the discussion is worthy...
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by moonshadow »

China also has about got their situation under control.

The U.S. is projected to have more cases and more deaths than China... one has 1.3 billion people, the other, 320 million.

Wonder where we went wrong...?

Sounds like China has their sh!t together. The other got caught with their pants down...
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Re: Gas prices...

Post by Coder »

moonshadow wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:32 pm
China also has about got their situation under control.

The U.S. is projected to have more cases and more deaths than China... one has 1.3 billion people, the other, 320 million.

Wonder where we went wrong...?

Sounds like China has their sh!t together. The other got caught with their pants down...
I’m hoping we reacted fast enough - though there are some areas that are concerning me (NY, CA in particular). Here in MI of 2300 tests, 549 were positive. While I expect the numbers to go up, it relieves me a bit that not even half of those tested were positive - and at the moment we are rationing testing, so only symptomatic or people in contact with known sick individuals or the really rich have been tested so far. So we might have a handle on the symptomatic people who went to their dr, but we don't have a handle on asymptomatic carriers.

I also am very skeptical of the numbers coming out of China, especially since they kicked some reporters out at some point during this debacle.
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Re: Gas prices...

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moonshadow wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:32 pm
Sounds like China has their sh!t together. The other got caught with their pants down...
China, with its centralised command economy has several advantages in this realm because that structure allows it to move very quickly in situations where it feels as though it must. However, would you like to live under such a system. Imagine the US trying to make the sorts of bold moves that China has in the face of this. Try getting Congress to pass the sorts of legislation to do anything meaningful, recalling that since the government relies virtually 100% on wage-related taxes there is very little "loose money" running around. The support system for quarantined individuals would cost a fortune and there's no money to pay for it.

China can, and likely has, mobilised its military to provide supplies (food, water where need be, toilet paper where there is indoor plumbing) for those in quarantine. In the US we're still expected to go to the store to pick up essential items. China's solution looks very much like it's one of ,"Stop this thing dead in its track so it doesn't spread and wait it out." If you're quarantined, you stay indoors, and once every morning there's a package of essentials for those who are under full quarantine. The interesting side-effect of that is that you're at risk of reverse-contagion once everybody who's had it is either fully recovered or dead and travellers from outside start showing up because other than the survivors there is no immunity in the population. It's 18th century, but it can work in limited situations where universal travel is unheard of or very slow.
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