Corona Virus

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Freedomforall
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Freedomforall »

moonshadow wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:51 am

Well, that pulled me right out of the anti-vax funk...

Thanks FFA! :lol:
Hey you are welcome. He is really funny. I first saw him in Nashville 0ver 30 years ago. I have seen him twice since then and used to own all his videos. He has a lot of funny stuff!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbI5o-u3Ro0
Coder
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Coder »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59524527

This is particularly crazy - that this person thought he could pass off a fake arm as real skin. And this person is in healthcare.
Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Sinned wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:22 am
I look at it this way - if they don't care enough about their own lives to get vaccinated then why should anyone else? The only pity is that, unvaccinated, should they catch covid and become seriously ill they take up so many d*mn*d resources to treat them for what is a self-induced condition. Hospitals are so full of the unvaccinated. It is even having an effect on maternity wards as the groups of vaccinated and unvaccinated have to be kept apart now.
Please note, that the BMJ of August last indicated, that the ratio vacinated and unvaccinated in the UK hospitals was 50/50.
Ray
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ray »

Gusto

1. Your data comes from August 2021. It is hopelessly out of date.

2. let’s look at some basic analysis. In August 2021, about 80-85% of the “at risk” population had been double vaccinated. Let’s call it 80%.

So in August, half of the hospitalisations came from 80%. Half came from 20%. That means that you are four times more likely to be in hospital if you don’t get vaccinated.

So given that hospital beds are being taken up unnecessarily by the unvaccinated, I will suggest a third point.

3. Let the unvaccinated go to the back of the queue for treatment. If they die, fine. The human gene pool loses a large swathe of selfish unthinking morons and idiots. The good ones have a better chance of survival.

If you’re going to debate this properly, at least try to come armed with decent facts. August 21? Unbelievable….
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ray »

While I’m at it, click on the link below. Scroll down to the released data four hours ago (about 1700 UTC/GMT. Chris Whitby diagrams.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... ntist-says

Look very carefully at the hospital admission ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated - across all ages (slide 10). It’s only England - not the U.K. - but the message is clear enough.

Over to you, Gusto. Let’s have your data.
Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Ray wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:18 pm
While I’m at it, click on the link below. Scroll down to the released data four hours ago (about 1700 UTC/GMT. Chris Whitby diagrams.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... ntist-says

Look very carefully at the hospital admission ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated - across all ages (slide 10). It’s only England - not the U.K. - but the message is clear enough.

Over to you, Gusto. Let’s have your data.
Ray,

With all due respect, I would love to discuss this all over a pint.
Just a few thoughts.
The figures provided for example by the Dutch government and statements by hospitals do not correlate.
At present we are going from the dominant Delta version towards the Omicron. Omicron has been longer under us than we have realised as one can see on e.g. covidtracker.fr.
Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Ray,

I would like to point out a few more things:
The vaccins are under a Emergency Use Application.
Getting the jabs is on voluntary basis.
At this very moment the long term effects of the jabs are unknown.
Omicron, according to the South African data, doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated. In general eventhough it's more contagious, it's less severe.
One of the major problems with the Healthcare in Europe is, that many nurses left and sought employement elsewhere, thus lack of hands in the hospitals.
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

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Ah well, that explains it. The Dutch are obviously different. I was beaten to it to point out your false figures. Anyway, to be blunt the more the deliberately unvaccinated die the safer it makes it for the rest of us. It's just a shame that they take up so many resources in doing so.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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Sinned wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:29 pm
Anyway, to be blunt the more the deliberately unvaccinated die the safer it makes it for the rest of us. It's just a shame that they take up so many resources in doing so.
I concur.

On Monday I had the pleasure of better than 8 hours of acute respiratory distress down to "mask madness" driven by the socially irresponsible bullying the socially responsible. I view not getting vaccinated (without verifiable medical reason) the same way I view not wearing safety-belts whilst driving automobiles -- you take your life in your own hands, and if it goes badly then you should be allowed to die. Unceremoniously.

This old boy has had enough.

The facts are in. The vaccines are safe, they're efficacious in suppressing the life-threatening symptoms of the disease, and we're now getting "long term" results as to safety. In short, the technology works.
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Sinned »

I have, over the past few months, learnt of several fully vaccinated people who have been tested positive for covid and just had mild symptoms, no worse than a cold. My youngest son has just been diagnosed positive with mild symptoms. Vaccination isn't about stopping you getting the virus, there are too many examples of this, it's about priming the body's immune system for if and when you do get it. I may have had it myself as I had cold-like symptoms but lfts on three consecutive days said otherwise so maybe it was just that - a cold or unspecified viral inflection [0].

As regards masks I have to wear one as part of my store's rules but I find myself, when not in the proximity of a customer, lowering the mask to breathe "fresh" air countering the stuffiness of the mask. The company provides the paper mask which may be of only cosmetic effectiveness but are better than nothing.

[0] deliberate.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Coder
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Coder »

So far, of all the people I indirectly know of who died from covid, have been unvaxxed. It's also telling when hospitals present charts showing who is hospitalized for it, among the vaccinated, they tend to have underlying medical conditions or are over 65. The flip side - those unvaccinated tend to not have underling conditions. This is following the local hospital near me, but I'm sure the trend is the same all over.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ray »

Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:27 pm
Ray,

I would like to point out a few more things:
The vaccins are under a Emergency Use Application.
Getting the jabs is on voluntary basis.
At this very moment the long term effects of the jabs are unknown.
Omicron, according to the South African data, doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated. In general eventhough it's more contagious, it's less severe.
One of the major problems with the Healthcare in Europe is, that many nurses left and sought employement elsewhere, thus lack of hands in the hospitals.
I’d like to respond to your points if I may.

The vaccins are under a Emergency Use Application.

I’d agree that it’s an emergency. By the way, it’s “vaccines”.

Getting the jabs is on voluntary basis.

Not for long if the idiots persist in putting other lives at stake. I believe that not taking the jab is morally reprehensible.

At this very moment the long term effects of the jabs are unknown.

I’d disagree. The long term effect of NOT having the jab is, for many, death. For 10% of those infected, Long Covid. Oh, and you create a fertile breeding ground for new variants.

No long term effects yet. This is not thalidomide. The genome sequencing was well known. How else do you explain the fact that a vaccine (with an “e” at the end) was created in 48 hours?

Omicron, according to the South African data, doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated. In general eventhough it's more contagious, it's less severe.

I agree. However you’re far more likely to be in trouble if you’re unvaccinated. See my previous link to U.K. government stats.

Your last point is irrelevant to the debate.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by crfriend »

Ray wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:50 am
I’d like to respond to your points if I may.

The vaccins are under a Emergency Use Application.

I’d agree that it’s an emergency. By the way, it’s “vaccines”.
I believe that the Pfizer vaccine has been fully approved with others likely on the way.
Getting the jabs is on voluntary basis.

Not for long if the idiots persist in putting other lives at stake. I believe that not taking the jab is morally reprehensible.
See my prior remarks about not wearing safety-belts whilst in an automobile. If you're not wearing one and get into a crash (an inevitability if one drives enough) then you're contributory to your own injuries. In the case of the vaccines and not getting vaccinated then you're not only contributory to your illness but also to the illnesses of others and should be held accountable.
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Coder
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Coder »

Gusto10 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:27 pm
One of the major problems with the Healthcare in Europe is, that many nurses left and sought employement elsewhere, thus lack of hands in the hospitals.
I cannot speak for Europe, but this is actually an EFFECT from COVID over here in the US. Nurses and first responders have left the field due to burnout - taking care of sick/dying people where the only treatment is supportive care - pays a heavy toll. Local hospitals over here are now repositioning staff because of the delta+omicron surge (some areas are still grappling with Delta), and we all know at this point the vaccine significantly reduces chance of hospitalization or death from COVID.

I know a nurse who works in the COVID ICU, she's been trying to transfer out of ICU for a while now and they keep having to put more resources into the ICU... which means she will not be transferred (her latest request was denied).

My point being - more hospitalizations+more death = less medical staff. Vaccine = less hospitalizations+less death = more medical staff. It's not something that happens overnight, but a cumulative effect that we are all grappling with.

Some articles to put things in focus:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/ ... ar-AASxZwh

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatl ... le/621193/
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moonshadow
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

Coder wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:37 pm
I cannot speak for Europe, but this is actually an EFFECT from COVID over here in the US. Nurses and first responders have left the field due to burnout - taking care of sick/dying people where the only treatment is supportive care - pays a heavy toll. Local hospitals over here are now repositioning staff because of the delta+omicron surge (some areas are still grappling with Delta), and we all know at this point the vaccine significantly reduces chance of hospitalization or death from COVID.
Word on the local street is that many nurses and other medical staff are quitting due to vaccine mandates. I'm not sure where they're going as most medical systems I'm aware of have, or will soon have similar mandates, but it's just another factor contributing to the overall labor shortage.

As for me, I'm long past the point where I've had enough of this covid conspiracy nonsense. I've had enough of the "he said she said" bullsh!t, the politics, the useless rage and grandstanding.

I don't even care about the shots, or the mask, or whatever anymore. I just received a third shot back in December. I've done all I can do. The fire rages out of control anyway.

Let it burn.
-MS
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