Corona Virus

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Coder
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Coder »

Faldaguy wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:02 am
On the other hand....my Doc suggested mixing was good, just added some more barriers to the virus. Many of us get an annual flu shot...no limit as the flu changes and the vaccines wear out -- so why should Covid be any different? And, each of those flu shots differ to, not just in the formula of the year, but often from different sources from year to year, even at the same dispensary. [I'm no MD either -- but it does seem we are 'over-thinking' what seems a simple procedure that has been hugely successful for many an ailment over decades.]
I was about the post the same thoughts about the flu shot. I would say... don't mix the first two doses, seems "risky", and if you can help it do the same booster as the original.
rode_kater
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rode_kater »

People seems to get confused by the changing massages being produced by government, but the problem is that we just don't know a lot of things. And when you get new information you sometimes have to change the guidance. This is not a bad thing.

I sometimes change my mind when I get new information. What do you do? The same applies to government.

W.r.t boosters, the story here is that while the vaccines work very well long term for preventing hospitalisation, they do appear to lose effectiveness when it comes to preventing transmission. Does this matter? Well, if there are a lot of unvaccinated people, then yes, reducing transmission is vital. So once again the people who are responsible have to do something because other people won't.

The German health minister apparently got a lot of flak by saying that by the end of the winter everyone will either be vaccinated, recovered or dead. After that it doesn't matter any more, it will be just like the annual flu season that kills a few million every year.
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

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My wife and I had the Astrazenica/Oxford for the first two vaccinations and recently had the Moderna booster. Had the usual day after grotty feeling but after that nothing. Over here the booster is a different brand two and I don't know if you can stipulate any different. Since they are very similar I don't see there being any problem. I also see there being (semi-)annual covid vaccinations similar to the flu ones. As for your doctor, Moon, I wouldn't be too concerned as doctors do have differing opinions subject not just to their training but also their personal whims. Consult another doctor and you may get a different answer.
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moonshadow
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

Well, as it looks as though we're just going to have to vaccinate every six months forever, I do wonder how long before they start to charge people for these things?

Don't forget, the U.S., unlike almost all other countries in the world, operates a "for profit" healthcare system.

Of course I'm sure religious people will get theirs for free. :roll:
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Re: Corona Virus

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Also, how much longer before this virus mutates a vaccine resistant strain? Are we just going to keep poking ourselves with the same formula as they become increasingly useless?

Again, I am NOT opposed to getting jabs, but frankly this whole thing seems to becoming more and more haphazard.

When a car is breaking down along the highway, it normally does more damage to push it harder.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by geron »

I was given Pfizer for all three doses. There's an argument that switching vaccines for subsequent doses may broaden your immune response because they're all a bit different -- but the professionals won't advise that because they haven't been tested and evaluated that way.

As to what happens next year, AIUI the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine can be more or less programmed digitally to target any mutation that may be of interest -- so it could be adjusted fairly easily to meet the next threat.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rode_kater »

moonshadow wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:52 am
Also, how much longer before this virus mutates a vaccine resistant strain? Are we just going to keep poking ourselves with the same formula as they become increasingly useless?
It doesn't work like that. One of the reasons the vaccine targets the spike is that if the virus switches to a very different spike it won't be able to infect us anymore.

People usually talk about resistance in the context of antibiotics. There you're trying to make something that kills bacteria but not human cells, that's pretty hard for us simple human beings. With vaccines you're just providing the body with a Wanted poster and then letting a system fine tuned over a billion years of evolution figure it out.

Vaccine resistance is rare. The flu vaccine is really the only common one, but that's because the flu is a genetic outlier: it's a virus that has sex. Get infected with two different strains of flu and you get lots of "baby" flu viruses. That said, there is research into a Universal Flu Vaccine which tries to target a part of the flu that doesn't change so much. In theory some people's immune system might stumble across it by accident, which may be why some people just don't get the flu. If we can find such a place we can make a vaccine that targets that point in particular.

Eventually everyone will either be vaccinated, recovered or dead from COVID. At that point boosters don't achieve anything any more and we can stop. People who die after that are just unlucky. This should happen sometime next year.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Nanny91 »

moonshadow wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 am
Well, as it looks as though we're just going to have to vaccinate every six months forever, I do wonder how long before they start to charge people for these things?

Don't forget, the U.S., unlike almost all other countries in the world, operates a "for profit" healthcare system.

Of course I'm sure religious people will get theirs for free. :roll:
I think so... :?
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

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All vaccinations over here are free on the NHS, covid, diptheria, flu, polio, tetanus and others. My wife must be one of those with a natural immunity to flu because, whereas I have had flu several times, in the 46 years that I have known her she has never had the flu. Not once, not ever.

I came across this article in MSN https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medica ... li=BBoPWjQ. If true this would be hugely ironic as this is the vaccine the Macron and Merkle rubbished and not largely taken up in the EU countries. It may also go partly in explaining why Europe is experiencing a new wave of infections whereas it is lower here.
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rode_kater
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rode_kater »

Sinned wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:53 am
I came across this article in MSN https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medica ... li=BBoPWjQ. If true this would be hugely ironic as this is the vaccine the Macron and Merkle rubbished and not largely taken up in the EU countries. It may also go partly in explaining why Europe is experiencing a new wave of infections whereas it is lower here.
"not taken up"? Don't make me laugh. AZ was never delivered in any meaningful quantity, only one tenth of the other vaccines, too little too late. The same is probably true in the UK, but they don't publish how many AZ vaccines actually were used. I wonder why?

It's a puff piece, all major vaccines so far produce a robust T-cell response. The UK has twice the hospitalisation rates of France/Germany (source) so I wouldn't be cheering too early.
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Re: Corona Virus

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As a young 79 yr-old Frontline worker I availed today of the free invite to have my AZ booster jab together with 'flu jab in the other arm. I'm off work this afternoon, precaution against a reaction. None before and so far, none this time either.

One conforms, does one's bit and like everyone else, hope to ride out this wretched thing unscathed.

Tom
Carpe Diem......Seize the Day !
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

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r_k, for the adult population AZ is/was used for the first 2 doses and has amounted to some 80 million + doses to the middle of November. As for not being published the figures are available on the NHS and UK Government websites down to by Area by Ethnicity by Month if you want them. I downloaded such an XL spreadsheet giving such information.
So come off the Conspiracy Theories.

Other vaccines were recommended for the younger segment of the population. So that refutes your "never delivered in any meaningful quantity" assertion. While the UK had priority in the early days of vaccination that was only because our order was placed first. The EU placed their order but it was insufficient and, being placed later, was to be delivered later than the UKs creating the subsequent argument. In consequence, and in a fit of pique, the vaccine was rubbished by Macron and Markle as well as being limited to over-65s resulting in a low and patchy take up. Many overtly refusing the AZ vaccine.

As for antibody and T cells, the different vaccines don't produce these in the same proportions and both are required for the immune system to work efficiently. We vaccinated the elder proportion and vulnerable early which gave us an advantage, Your citation of hospitalisation cases is simplistic, at best as other factors such as infection rates and deaths need to be considered. The majority of the hospitalisations seem to be among the unvaccinated. I wonder which countries are in lockdown, either partial or total, or are considering lockdown? If the UK has built up immunity through vaccination then the hospitalisation figure is misleading - it is the deaths figure that is the defining one and those are quite low for the UK.

Stop the Anti-vaxx propsganda.
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moonshadow
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

Kirbstone wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:19 pm
As a young 79 yr-old Frontline worker I availed today of the free invite to have my AZ booster jab together with 'flu jab in the other arm. I'm off work this afternoon, precaution against a reaction. None before and so far, none this time either.

One conforms, does one's bit and like everyone else, hope to ride out this wretched thing unscathed.

Tom
79 years young eh?

Keep at it... in 30 more years you'll be old enough to run for public office!
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by geron »

Sinned wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:02 pm
...In consequence, and in a fit of pique, the vaccine was rubbished by Macron and Markle...
Oh dear -- are the Markles getting stuck into this too?
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Faldaguy »

by moonshadow » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:52 am

Also, how much longer before this virus mutates a vaccine resistant strain? Are we just going to keep poking ourselves with the same formula as they become increasingly useless?
Here you go Moon, from yesterday's Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... -mutations
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