Corona Virus

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Faldaguy
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Faldaguy »

by Freedomforall » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:47 pm

So I have discovered a bit of interesting information
https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/covid ... og-causes/
Thank you FFA: This is the kind of information that may be helpful to all of us in 'conquering' this nasty bug.
by Sinned » Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:04 pm

Hey, taking the vaccine is a personal choice
by Ray » Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:31 am

Mishawakaskirt

Not getting vaccinated has consequences. When millions die and the impact on those who have serious ailments is huge (no operations / treatment at hospital... because the unvaccinated... have clogged up the system), then the vaccine should be mandatory. It’s not about the individual - it’s about the wider good of society.
For those who feel getting the vaccine is a "personal choice" (& thus apparently whatever the choice one makes is OK) how does that differ from "Drinking and Driving"? That too is certainly a personal choice; but an illegal one in most places, as it does impacts others, not just 'you'. Statistically more people die from Covid transmission than from drunk drivers, which would support the proposition vaccines should be mandatory -- unless you are a hermit and never associate with others in person.

I don't wish anyone ill, nor the ill relief from their ailments; but there are deadly consequences to proclaiming personal freedom over societal integrity and like driving drunk, there are natural consequences and there should be legal consequences.
Big and Bashful
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Big and Bashful »

There's a novelty! I clicked the link and was blocked because I am in the EU. Hasn't that site heard of Brexit?

Oh well, back to configuring my new gaming pc, after 12 years the last one just wasn't cutting the mustard (whatever that means! I don't even like mustard!)
After losing a few hours when a software glitch held the cpu to 0.4 GHz I have installed the second HDD I ordered yesterday and am busy loading stuff, simulators etc. I think it is going to be very nice once I have things on it to enjoy.
When the Covid eventually does catch me, I will be able to fly around my living room in my favourite virtual airliner for the first time in maybe 4 years. I hope!
I am the God of Hellfire! and I bring you truffles!
Freedomforall
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Freedomforall »

Freedomforall
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Freedomforall »

Freedomforall
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Freedomforall »

This is another good article on the effects that even a mild case of Covid can have on the brain.

https://www.americanscientist.org/artic ... brain-mass
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Sinned »

It seems that virtually all restrictions are being lifted next week. From Thursday we can even go maskless everywhere. To be fair, apart from mask wearing life is just normal around here. After Thursday life will be .... just normal.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Grok
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Grok »

Just got Covid booster shot. At a pharmacy. Was required to bring multiple cards/documents, but when I got there they only wanted to see my Covid card-for my previous vaccinations.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by crfriend »

Grok wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:52 pm
Just got Covid booster shot. At a pharmacy. Was required to bring multiple cards/documents, but when I got there they only wanted to see my Covid card-for my previous vaccinations.
That was roughly what I experienced when I got my first booster a week before Christmas. No drama, just a simple shot and nothing more other than an update to my vaccination card that I was going to need to present (at the very least) in New York City when I passed through.
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Kirbstone
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Kirbstone »

Ah good then, Dennis. You can get back to your nocturnal satsuma picking down the Lord Mayor's Walk now. :D

We've just been issued with our revised EU Covid vaccs. certs which include the date of our third jab. Over here we're still wearing masks inside buildings and socially distancing when queueing for checkouts &c. I recently attended my first concert for over two years. The theatre was just 50% full, but since then they are allowing 100% capacity, i.e. to hell with social distancing. I'm not overly keen on that, just yet.

Tom
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joking1966
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by joking1966 »

Faldaguy wrote:
> [quote]by Freedomforall » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:47 pm
>
> So I have discovered a bit of interesting information
> https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/covid ... og-causes/[/quote]
>
> Thank you FFA: This is the kind of information that may be helpful to all
> of us in 'conquering' this nasty bug.
>
> [quote]by Sinned » Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:04 pm
>
> Hey, taking the vaccine is a personal choice [/quote]
>
> [quote]by Ray » Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:31 am
>
> Mishawakaskirt
>
> Not getting vaccinated has consequences. When millions die and the impact
> on those who have serious ailments is huge (no operations / treatment at
> hospital... because the unvaccinated... have clogged up the system), then
> the vaccine should be mandatory. [u]It’s not about the individual - it’s
> about the wider good of society.[/u][/quote]
>
> For those who feel getting the vaccine is a "personal choice"
> (& thus apparently whatever the choice one makes is OK) how does that
> differ from "Drinking and Driving"? That too is certainly a
> personal choice; but an illegal one in most places, as it does impacts
> others, not just 'you'. Statistically more people die from Covid
> transmission than from drunk drivers, which would support the proposition
> vaccines should be mandatory -- unless you are a hermit and never associate
> with others in person.
>
> I don't wish anyone ill, nor the ill relief from their ailments; but there
> are deadly consequences to proclaiming personal freedom over societal
> integrity and like driving drunk, there are natural consequences and there
> should be legal consequences.


This argument is a false dichotomy. I have heard these before. in your drunk driving scenario there are two false pretenses. First is that no one is force to drink. It is the individuals choice whether or not to consume alcohol. Second is assuming the state has the right to force someone to have anything go into their body. This is not an argument against vaccines. It is about honouring principles the countries agreed to after the Second World War when we saw the effects of forced medical treatments on people. We don't want to go down a slippery slope because we are fearful. My point is not to create an argument. But that if you want people to take a vaccine we are bound, in a liberal democracy, to convince people not force people as it pertains to bodily autonomy.

I have attached an article about the Japanese Internments in Canada between 1941 and 1948. When you read it replace the word Japanese with COVID vaccine hesitant.

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/ ... rs-feature
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by crfriend »

I thought we'd beaten this dead horse into the ground. {sigh}

I'm not a big fan of "mandates" either, but sometimes they have to be used. Personally, I'd just appeal to societal responsibility (and that's a bit of a swear term in the USA) and put some teeth into it. To start with, if you're unvaccinated without a medical reason and present with symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 you get sent to the back of the queue. Likewise, if you're unvaccinated without a medical reason and you're occupying a hospital bed that someone who suffered an injury (for instance) needs, then you get sent home.

Easy. It avoids Mandate Madness, avoids the problem of the socially-irresponsible pushing the socially-responsible around, and improves the level of care for the socially-responsible. Of course that's not going to fly in the United States because of the way that its "health care" "system" works (which is entirely for profit) and money can be as easily extracted from a SARS patient who's sick because of an ill-calculated risk as it can from somebody who's been in a car crash.
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alexthebird
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by alexthebird »

crfriend wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:33 pm
I thought we'd beaten this dead horse into the ground. {sigh}

I'm not a big fan of "mandates" either, but sometimes they have to be used. Personally, I'd just appeal to societal responsibility (and that's a bit of a swear term in the USA) and put some teeth into it. To start with, if you're unvaccinated without a medical reason and present with symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 you get sent to the back of the queue. Likewise, if you're unvaccinated without a medical reason and you're occupying a hospital bed that someone who suffered an injury (for instance) needs, then you get sent home.

Easy. It avoids Mandate Madness, avoids the problem of the socially-irresponsible pushing the socially-responsible around, and improves the level of care for the socially-responsible. Of course that's not going to fly in the United States because of the way that its "health care" "system" works (which is entirely for profit) and money can be as easily extracted from a SARS patient who's sick because of an ill-calculated risk as it can from somebody who's been in a car crash.
There another idea that I've heard and I'm really surprised that it hasn't gained more traction. Who is paying for the treatment of Covid patients who are not vaccinated? I'm sure that the hospitals are able to pass on the costs to somebody, but are the insurance companies paying for it (which means it gets passed on to companies who provide health insurance and people with contributions to health insurance plans) or is it being passed on to the government (meaning it gets passed on to taxpayers).

Why can't we just say that there is no medical coverage for people who choose not to be vaccinated and don't have a valid medical reason?
rode_kater
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rode_kater »

joking1966 wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:54 pm
Second is assuming the state has the right to force someone to have anything go into their body. This is not an argument against vaccines. It is about honouring principles the countries agreed to after the Second World War when we saw the effects of forced medical treatments on people.
If you're conflating the current discussions about vaccine "mandates" with internment and forced medical treatments, then I find it difficult to accept you're arguing in good faith. No government in a liberal democracy is going to round people up and forcibly jab them. So arguing that is a risk is IMHO totally disingenuous.

There is a sensible discussion possible about how much pressure is acceptable. The mandates we're talking about these days aren't even mandates in the strict sense of the word. For example, saying people can't visit a pub for a while is I think perfectly reasonable. Whether it can be required for a job I find trickier. AIUI in the US you can lose your job if you're not vaccinated which I think goes a bit far. Here in NL your employer is not even allowed to ask you if you're vaccinated.

Does it make a difference if your job involves dealing with sick or immunocompromised people? I think yes. There is plenty of room for discussions and nuance here.

But just shutting down the discussion by yelling "slippery slope! WW2!" doesn't help anyone. Nor does yelling "if you don't take the vaccine you're a murderer" for that matter. The world is not black and white.
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Sinned »

Our government was readying to sack thousands of NHS workers that consciously hadn't been vaccinated. I think that what changed the government's mind is the reduction in cases, hospitalisations, ICU referrals and deaths. Plus the latest variant seems to produce less harsh effects.
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moonshadow
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:33 pm
Of course that's not going to fly in the United States because of the way that its "health care" "system" works (which is entirely for profit)
Medical industry

Canada and Europe have health care, we just have an industry that profits on pure torture.

I will never call what it is not, our medical industry has nothing to do with health, and it sure as hell doesn't care.

It's just a slime ball money grubbing business. And that's just the way we like it by God... when our rulers ("leaders") say they're going to ----- us in the ----.... we CHERFULLY bend over and touch our toes...
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