Corona Virus

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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by crfriend »

Gusto10 wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:25 pmThe advise given by the authorities is to maintain social distance. As a friend pointed out, the normal social distance can be maintained especially via the social networks, physical distance has to be paid attention to.
Anyone who believes that social media, and even telephone calls, are any substitute for physical presence is delusional.

Families will likely be OK during this time of isolation because they have each other; singletons, especially those that were somewhat isolated anyway, are going to suffer horribly, and it's in this space that I expect to see serious psychological problem occurring in the coming weeks. The worst part of this is that none of know how long we're going to be held in this mode. There is no "light at the end of the tunnel" to even offer hope.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by denimini »

Gusto10 wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:25 pm The advise given by the authorities is to maintain social distance. As a friend pointed out, the normal social distance can be maintained especially via the social networks, physical distance has to be paid attention to.
You are correct; it is really physical distancing, I don't know why they keep referring to it as social distancing; you won't get it from the telephone ............. unless an infected person used it previously.
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Re: Corona Virus Self test

Post by beachlion »

I'm far from hypochondriac but I'm observing myself very carefully in these troubling times. If I have a sniffle, is that a normal one? If I cough or if I feel a muscle aching slightly, is that normal? It is like I'm watching myself under a microscope. I'm anxious to see if those little aches and pains develop into something more serious. I'm in quite a good state and I like to keep it that way. I like to be there for my wife and her daugther if something serious is happening to them. I still do my normal things as far as the restrictions allow me.

In Pennsylvania you have to wear a face mask or something of fabric that will cover the nose and mouth now. My masks are ready for a week now. Slowly people are getting confronted with more restricting measures. The Corona cases are going up in PA but the fatalities are quite low yet. With the foggy guidance from the government, it is difficult to have accurate numbers. I hope the curve will be flattened with these extra measures.
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Re: Corona Virus

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Masks, hmm, I used to do face fit testing in the last place I worked. We withdrew the paper masks once we saw how useless they were, although we were trying to keep stuff out. To stop you infecting other people, used that way they would be a bit more effective, although you will need a lot of them, they are disposable and not designed to be worn for long periods. A mask is also only useful if you know how to wear it. I am tempted to go into my workplace and get my kit, with full powered respirator, full oversuits, gloves etc. That might spook people though!
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

crfriend wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:39 pm
Gusto10 wrote: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:25 pmThe advise given by the authorities is to maintain social distance. As a friend pointed out, the normal social distance can be maintained especially via the social networks, physical distance has to be paid attention to.
Anyone who believes that social media, and even telephone calls, are any substitute for physical presence is delusional.

Families will likely be OK during this time of isolation because they have each other; singletons, especially those that were somewhat isolated anyway, are going to suffer horribly, and it's in this space that I expect to see serious psychological problem occurring in the coming weeks. The worst part of this is that none of know how long we're going to be held in this mode. There is no "light at the end of the tunnel" to even offer hope.
That's true, and I also considered this morning, that even if one doesn't have family, we often interact with people (strangers) every day.

I thought about this when I noticed an old business card in a drawer from the British man who sold us a piece of his artwork at the Roanoke market last summer. I recalled the small chitchat we were making (all while I was skirted of course).

That 4 day weekend was a blast as I recall. Interacting with all sorts of people, complete strangers I may never see again, nevertheless the interactions were forever etched in my memory.

Sadly it seems 2020 will have little of that.... :blue:
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Grok »

I am in healthcare (an LPN) and am still working. Not on the frontline, as such, but do home care. I view myself as rather lucky at the moment. Any way, work givers me a reason to get out and about. Otherwise, the grocery store would be the only place to go.

For exercise I do brisk walks around the neighborhood. Seems like people are walking their dogs more, I guess that would give them an excuse to get out of the house.

I have a friend who has no job to go to, he seems to be more or less stuck in his apartment. He has commented that lock down is boring. I also think that he is starved for human contact, if I call him I have to plan on being on the phone for at least an hour.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by partlyscot »

Big and Bashful wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:51 am Masks, hmm, I used to do face fit testing in the last place I worked. We withdrew the paper masks once we saw how useless they were, although we were trying to keep stuff out. To stop you infecting other people, used that way they would be a bit more effective, although you will need a lot of them, they are disposable and not designed to be worn for long periods. A mask is also only useful if you know how to wear it. I am tempted to go into my workplace and get my kit, with full powered respirator, full oversuits, gloves etc. That might spook people though!
Slightly different cases. The current swing towards most people wearing masks is due to the realization that it reduces the risk of the wearer spreading any illnesses they may have.

Reduces. Not eliminate the chance. That's the main purpose in this social distancing. You can't eliminate the risk of infection, short of an isolation ward, but it is necessary to put some brakes on this virus, or see the collapse of medical systems.
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Re: Corona Virus

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partlyscot wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:15 pm
Big and Bashful wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:51 am Masks, hmm, I used to do face fit testing in the last place I worked. We withdrew the paper masks once we saw how useless they were, although we were trying to keep stuff out. To stop you infecting other people, used that way they would be a bit more effective, although you will need a lot of them, they are disposable and not designed to be worn for long periods. A mask is also only useful if you know how to wear it. I am tempted to go into my workplace and get my kit, with full powered respirator, full oversuits, gloves etc. That might spook people though!
Slightly different cases. The current swing towards most people wearing masks is due to the realization that it reduces the risk of the wearer spreading any illnesses they may have.

Reduces. Not eliminate the chance. That's the main purpose in this social distancing. You can't eliminate the risk of infection, short of an isolation ward, but it is necessary to put some brakes on this virus, or see the collapse of medical systems.
Hi Mr Partly, I am well aware that people are wearing them to stop the bugs getting out quote "although we were trying to keep stuff out. To stop you infecting other people,..." A problem with disposable masks and untrained people is that they will breath into the mask for maybe a few hours, getting a lovely culture of the virus in the warmed moist mask, they then remove the mask, very probably handling the virus soaked fabric of the mask, thus contaminating their hands. Followed by a strong possibility of wiping, rubbing or touching their faces, arms, clothing etc. before they wash and clean their hands. I train people to monitor and decontaminate and remove protective clothing as part of a response to deal with radioactive emergencies, however most precautions are the same. Even with a trained team there are still many problems trying to catch every possible way of eliminating the spread of contamination. Joseph Q. Public needs to be given enough training/guidance so that they aren't actually making matters worse by taking a mask and doing the wrong thing.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by partlyscot »

Big and Bashful wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:13 pm Slightly different cases. The current swing towards most people wearing masks is due to the realization that it reduces the risk of the wearer spreading any illnesses they may have.

Reduces. Not eliminate the chance. That's the main purpose in this social distancing. You can't eliminate the risk of infection, short of an isolation ward, but it is necessary to put some brakes on this virus, or see the collapse of medical systems.

Hi Mr Partly, I am well aware that people are wearing them to stop the bugs getting out quote "although we were trying to keep stuff out. To stop you infecting other people,..." A problem with disposable masks and untrained people is that they will breath into the mask for maybe a few hours, getting a lovely culture of the virus in the warmed moist mask, they then remove the mask, very probably handling the virus soaked fabric of the mask, thus contaminating their hands. Followed by a strong possibility of wiping, rubbing or touching their faces, arms, clothing etc. before they wash and clean their hands. I train people to monitor and decontaminate and remove protective clothing as part of a response to deal with radioactive emergencies, however most precautions are the same. Even with a trained team there are still many problems trying to catch every possible way of eliminating the spread of contamination. Joseph Q. Public needs to be given enough training/guidance so that they aren't actually making matters worse by taking a mask and doing the wrong thing.
Good points
Last edited by Uncle Al on Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quoting format
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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Well, Massachusetts just lost more credibility with its reporting on the COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2 problem. One, the numbers they're reporting don't report the rate of new infections, those need to be derived by looking at the aggregate numbers that they're publishing and that's a pain that nobody is going to undertake, and two, they're not distinguishing "presumed" cases from verified cases any longer (which means that if they're using the still-published CDC guidelines they're counting lots of folks with common colds in the COVID-19 bucket).

They publish a spreadsheet every day on the number of infections in an inconvenient format (PDF) that I'm working on a way of doing an automated grab of each day so I can try to divine the rate, but the contamination of over-counting of colds and the like is going to badly skew any meaningful signal.

I suspect the intent is to frighten the populace into "behaving" in much the same way that the video that Uncle Al posted a while back did. The problem is is that fear usually doesn't work all that well. People either assume that they're being lied to (there's a big problem with that here) or they get fatalistic about it -- and neither of those is anywhere near a good outcome.

I am not saying we don't have a problem -- very much the opposite. However, I really wish the hyperbole and fear-mongering could be brought under control so the soft voice of reason can be heard through the general din. The basics work: keep your distance; if you feel ill, stay home; wash your hands first thing after getting home; and try to keep your hands away from your face.

B&B had some very good observations about masks -- very few people know how to wear them properly, or what to do with them when they're no longer serviceable. They also don't work if you've got a beard because there's no way to get a good seal. Too, unless you're after droplet-capture, cloth masks do precisely nothing. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is about 120 billionths of a metre in size; the virus would fly though a cloth "mask" as easily as a hang-glider can pass through the Grand Canyon. For droplet-capture, they might be of some efficacy, but limited. As a viral filter they're worse than useless because they'll encourage risky behaviour. Save the bandana for robbing stage-coaches.

Where the Hell are the facts and the truth?
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Re: Corona Virus

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Carl,
Looking on from afar as I do, I don't see there being any chance of the truth being published, or believed over there. When you have the Leader of the U.S. denying the truth for as long as he did, and still twisting everything he says to try and talk the situation up, while also behaving like a petulant toddler when advised to wear a mask. How is anyone over there supposed to take authority seriously with the Head Honcho behaving as he does? I came across an MP4 video which maps and plays quotes from January or February onwards till mid March against the days and how his story changes when he can no longer deny what is happening. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious!
If this is too political feel free to delete it, I can think of one person on this Forum who may be offended, that isn't my intent but I needed to say this.
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Re: Corona Virus

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crfriend wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:37 pm B&B had some very good observations about masks -- very few people know how to wear them properly, or what to do with them when they're no longer serviceable. They also don't work if you've got a beard because there's no way to get a good seal. Too, unless you're after droplet-capture, cloth masks do precisely nothing. The SARS-CoV-2 virus is about 120 billionths of a metre in size; the virus would fly though a cloth "mask" as easily as a hang-glider can pass through the Grand Canyon. For droplet-capture, they might be of some efficacy, but limited. As a viral filter they're worse than useless because they'll encourage risky behaviour. Save the bandana for robbing stage-coaches.
There are some theories going around - based on prior research and experiential (anecdotal) evidence - that the initial viral exposure can contribute greatly to how a person reacts to a virus. Small amounts might not cause as great a sickness, and may prime your body to start producing antibodies. A cloth mask - while not perfect - may reduce the initial exposure and cause a lighter set of symptoms. Additionally, there are studies showing that a cloth mask does filter out particles, just not as good as the commercial options. Even with commercial options there are specific ways you need to handle one... that the general public will fail to do properly. A bandana is a joke, and would do little to reduce exposure.

I have the same fears as you do as far as reporting and fear mongering that is going on. I've read countless articles by CNN, Fox, NPR, NYT, etc... and their headlines are always disconnected with the content. The headlines are written to stoke fear and attention - but when you start reading the "substance" of the article you realize it isn't as bad as the headline proclaims, or even worse the headline bears no resemblance to the article itself. The ones that bug me the most are when the expert quoted in the article says something that discredit's the headline as it was written. Early on the BBC did a HORRIBLE job of quoting a director from the WHO, thankfully they fixed it but I ended up getting so perturbed I sent a correction into themas they way they wrote it was highly misleading.

Or take the Comfort ship that sailed into the NY harbor - it's mission was never to serve COVID-19 patients, yet when it had only taken on 10 patients, news articles started coming out, complaining it wasn't handling COVID patients, and that it has low admittance numbers. Well... that was the point. They made their guidelines more lax, and accidentally took on patients who turned out to be positive for COVID. I don't know if the two things were related but we need calm rational reporting on these matters.

On the raw numbers - rarely does a news piece compare numbers per capita. And when they do they are selective to fit their narrative to make things as scary as possible.

Finally, no one is looking at what the normal deaths per day on average are for a given area, or analyzing how the models are overestimating the counts. These are critical for a rational, fact-based approach to this crisis.
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Re: Corona Virus

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Big and Bashful wrote: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:28 pm Carl,
Looking on from afar as I do, I don't see there being any chance of the truth being published, or believed over there. When you have the Leader of the U.S. denying the truth for as long as he did, and still twisting everything he says to try and talk the situation up, while also behaving like a petulant toddler when advised to wear a mask. How is anyone over there supposed to take authority seriously with the Head Honcho behaving as he does? I came across an MP4 video which maps and plays quotes from January or February onwards till mid March against the days and how his story changes when he can no longer deny what is happening. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious!
If this is too political feel free to delete it, I can think of one person on this Forum who may be offended, that isn't my intent but I needed to say this.
Be cautious of sound clip compilations. I only say this because - ignoring my political beliefs - those things are edited to make a point. I have friends on both sides of the political aisle, and I see how both sides manipulate media - video, audio, still images - to fit their narrative. It frustrates me because I don't want to defend politicians I disagree with, but when lies are spread about I can't accept those lies and half truths.

Don't get me wrong - he was downplaying the seriousness of this early on, and his mask answers during the last few briefings have been frustrating. The CDC really botched this one, but honestly, if it was spreading in November/December, there was little we could have done to stop the spread short of the current measures.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

On media fear mongering:

That's because the media needs eye balls for advertisers! Fear (and hate) sells... it's the same reason the media devote so much attention on other matters that quite frankly, really aren't a big deal. Right now fear is in season with this virus, but when this passes, it will return to selling hate.

This is not tin foil hat jibber-jabber.

As for the president. I am unimpressed. And that's not because he's a Republican! It's because he's Trump. He's placing this primarily on the shoulders of local governors, which is technically CORRECT... BUT... just as he has famously absolved himself of ANY responsibility on this matter, have created a system with states are competing against one another for supplies, etc. I GUARANTEE YOU that when this passes HE. WILL. TAKE. ALL. THE. CREDIT!!!

And I mean ALL of the credit!

We could have the federal government bring the states together... pool our resources and fight this thing UNIFIED... but that would be too SOCIALIST...

So you know what... f--k it! By their fruits you shall know them, and we are reaping what we have sown. The damned sad part about it is that 40% will still worship him!

But that's what you get when you elect a reality TV star to the most powerful office in the land!
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Re: Corona Virus

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The source of America's problems I believe came down to our inability of testing. Even to this day, test are in short supply, meanwhile many other nations with high population densities have managed to bring their outbreak under control.

We really have no idea who has this and who doesn't.

Oh and just wait until the medical bills start coming out!

10 million unemployed... many of which probably just lost their medical insurance!

It has been reported that uninsured, treatment for covid19 in a hospital can top $75,000 or more! Even if you have insurance you have to be careful because of various laws that our fearless leaders have enacted over the years, the hospital may be in network but the ER doctor may not be, resulting in medical charges in the tens of thousands!

But we can't do anything about it because of..... ssssssssssssOCIAISM! *hissssssssss* That would be evil! We can't have people going around with a safety net! Gheesh... next thing you know they'll be doling stimulus checks!

I got news for you... if get laid off over this and lose my health coverage... should I become infected I'm NOT going to a hospital and saddle my family with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical expenses.Ill fight it as best I can and if I die... I die... That's one of those situations where I'd be worth more dead than alive.

What's it to our leadership anyway...? They've got their billions and their untouchable health plans!

Pro life eh? Sheeeiiiaat.... Pro life my ass...

Pro $$$ sounds more like it....
-Andrea
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