Corona Virus

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Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Faldaguy wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 6:24 am Gusto, frankly I wonder if you too have joined the above crowd for some ulterior motives?
FG, I have discussed it all with amongst others:
1: my GP
2: a micro biologist who is conducting research on the effects of vaccination at Stanford University
3: A neighbour being a medical specialist
4: a friend who is by training dentist, but all members of his family are medical professionals and share the same concerns.

Further, at another forum a similar discussion is going on. Some participants followed the suggestion, by me and others, to do their own research instead of just quoting Fauci and the likes. It was interesting to see how their stance changed.

Hence my hesistance is forthcoming from the combination of the above and my own research due to a gutfeeling which said things don't add up, as indicated before.

I do respect everybody for his or her choice and I can only hope that their choce was based on more considerations than: "because the Fauci's of this world say so" (following the leader blindly as was done a century ago leading to WW2). I don't like a world as described by George Orwell in his book 1984 or by Ayn Rand in Atlas Shrugged or projected by Klaus Schwab in The Great Reset.

=> My only ulterior motive is letting others put their thinking cap on in order to decide for themsleves what they consider the best in their case. I'll respect them for such a decision and hope that they will respect me for my decision.
I'm not a preacher nor a soldier who takes commands without questioning such.

Categorising thoughts of another as Fear, Uncertinty and Doubts without proper argument why you consider such as that, is in my opinion "contra legem"(5th language though very rusty) with the "rules of engagement" applicable to this form.

Two additional thoughts:
1- If you look at the method being used by governments in order to get you jabbed, isn't that in essence the same method - F.U.D. - of which I'm being accused?
2- If you look at the graphs on positive contaminations and look for the dates on which measures like social distancing and mask wearing were put in place, what do you see?
The graphs I have studied show a decrease in positive tests. Last summer when those measueres were in place and the alpha variant was circulating, the contaminations were minimalised, this summer with the Delta version and lack of social distancing high contamination rates. Imo, suffice reason to have a closer look at things.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by crfriend »

Gusto10 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:48 am FG, I have discussed it all with amongst others:
1: my GP
2: a micro biologist who is conducting research on the effects of vaccination at Stanford University
3: A neighbour being a medical specialist
4: a friend who is by training dentist, but all members of his family are medical professionals and share the same concerns.
The science and the statistics all disagree with you. Give. It. Up.
Further, at another forum a similar discussion is going on. Some participants followed the suggestion, by me and others, to do their own research instead of just quoting Fauci and the likes. It was interesting to see how their stance changed.
Go ahead and spread your FUD at other sites. It may be welcome there. It is not welcome here.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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Sinned wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:17 amLooking back on posts it all appears more insidious when the FUD is spread under the pretext of reasoned debate. Consider one of gusto's latest posts in the context of FUD and his other posts and you will see what I mean.
That's the problem -- the wolf in sheep's clothing. It masquerades -- sometimes more successfully than others -- as something benign when in point of fact it's anything but.

I can see the climate-change deniers' point -- that's pure profit motive and driven by the extraction and motor vehicle industries. I do not understand the drivers behind the SARS deniers, unless it's nothing more than a power play or part of the general contempt for science that's been creeping into society since the rise of the reactionaries in 1980. In the '60s and '70s the notion of being a scientist was considered cool and worthy; nowadays you're as likely to get spat at on the street as anything else.

I'm particularly miffed at the moment as my old adopted home-town has recently descended back into mask madness -- and it's down to the "hesitant" and the societally irresponsible who are ignoring the science, and are demanding that the societally responsible protect the irresponsible using masks.
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rode_kater
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rode_kater »

Gusto10 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:48 am Two additional thoughts:
1- If you look at the method being used by governments in order to get you jabbed, isn't that in essence the same method - F.U.D. - of which I'm being accused?
If by this you mean things like:

* requiring either a vaccination or a negative test to go to the cinema, football match, etc

* identifying areas with low vaccination rates and identify the reasons why and do things like sending a bus where people can get a jab without appointment or even identification and with explanations in 20 languages

* making unvaccinated people who want to travel internationally jump through more hoops.

Then I don't see anything that could be referred to as FUD. All perfectly sensible measures. You can call it nudging if you like.
Gusto10 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:48 am 2- If you look at the graphs on positive contaminations and look for the dates on which measures like social distancing and mask wearing were put in place, what do you see?
The graphs I have studied show a decrease in positive tests. Last summer when those measueres were in place and the alpha variant was circulating, the contaminations were minimalised, this summer with the Delta version and lack of social distancing high contamination rates. Imo, suffice reason to have a closer look at things.
Not sure what you're trying to say here. I'm not convinced masks outdoors do anything useful, but then here we never required them outdoors so we have no data here to speculate one way or the other. Perhaps other places have better info.
Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

crfriend wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:25 am
Gusto10 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:48 am FG, I have discussed it all with amongst others:
1: my GP
2: a micro biologist who is conducting research on the effects of vaccination at Stanford University
3: A neighbour being a medical specialist
4: a friend who is by training dentist, but all members of his family are medical professionals and share the same concerns.
The science and the statistics all disagree with you. Give. It. Up.
Further, at another forum a similar discussion is going on. Some participants followed the suggestion, by me and others, to do their own research instead of just quoting Fauci and the likes. It was interesting to see how their stance changed.
Go ahead and spread your FUD at other sites. It may be welcome there. It is not welcome here.
As usual, arguments without motivation.
Faldaguy posed a question and I answered him. I hope he is happy with my explanation.
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

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I. Give. Up. gusto is so firmly entrenched that he will never be convinced. No movement is being made, gusto is anti-vaxx for whatever his reasoning is and a segment of the cafe is not convincing him otherwise. This thread may just as well get abandoned or locked much as I hate to say it.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Sinned wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:46 pm I. Give. Up. gusto is so firmly entrenched that he will never be convinced. No movement is being made, gusto is anti-vaxx for whatever his reasoning is and a segment of the cafe is not convincing him otherwise. This thread may just as well get abandoned or locked much as I hate to say it.
Why may I not be respected for my choice being the antural route for immunisation?
Why do I have to be convinced whilst the choice to get the jabbes is your own personal choice for which don't have to account for to anyone.
If I would be an anti vaxxer, I would preach such. I just don't jump when someone tels me to jump without a good reason. Yes I'm critical, nothing is wrong therewith. Live and let live and respect each other for ones choice whether you agree or not. Time will tell who is right.
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Jim
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Re: Corona Virus

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Gusto10 wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:26 pm Why may I not be respected for my choice being the antural route for immunisation?
I can't find the definition for the word "antural". Is this a typo? If not, please let me know what it means.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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Jim wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:04 pmI can't find the definition for the word "antural". Is this a typo? If not, please let me know what it means.
It's almost certainly a typo where he managed to swap the "n" and the "a". It means he wants to catch it the old fashioned way with no protection. I wonder if he treats his lovers that way...

If he survives it, he'll merely become part of the pool that will generate the next variation of the blasted thing and we'll all still be stuck in this morass for a few more years. Perhaps he'll get lucky and it won't kill him. Perhaps not. I just hope he won't kill anyone else.
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Ray
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ray »

Please shut this down. I’m done with Gusto’s FUD warbling.

The last few posts say it all.

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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by crfriend »

Ray wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:54 pmPlease shut this down. I’m done with Gusto’s FUD warbling.
It's coming. We had a 2/3 vote on putting Gusto on moderated status this morning, and I got chastised for "jumping the gun" and flipping the switch (because I've simply had enough and have had for over a week). So I flipped the setting back and we're going to follow the established process by consensus rule.
The last few posts say it all.
It's been plain for weeks. It's like dealing with climate-change deniers.

He'll not stop, of course, as he's on a mission. Whether it's a mission to kill people I don't know, but as a responsible member of society I don't need that "message" showing up in a space I have (potentially legal) responsibility for. Yo, Zuckerberg! Are you listening?
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Ray
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ray »

Thanks for that, Carl.

Sounds sensible
K_Highlander
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by K_Highlander »

My suggestion is to lock this thread and PERMANENTLY DELETE all content.
It has no business in this forum.
Faldaguy
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Re: Corona Virus

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by Gusto10 » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:08 am

Faldaguy posed a question and I answered him. I hope he is happy with my explanation.
Sorry Gusto, but all I read/hear/find in your presentation on Covid is obfuscation. It seems our efforts to communicate are merely getting us mired without any apparent utility. It is probably in the best interest of SK's objectives to just lay this item aside, despite it being an important "off topic" issue in present times. I am not finding it productive for me, and hereby bow out.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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K_Highlander wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:54 amMy suggestion is to lock this thread and PERMANENTLY DELETE all content.
It has no business in this forum.
There are problems with that. If I do that, the problem will just bubble up somewhere else, and the topic is, face it, important to a lot of us right now -- and with good reason.

For instance, where I am, the number of confirmed cases recently topped 750,000 out of a population of 6.1 million and we're still seeing between 1500 and 2000 new (as in tested positive) cases per day which has driven some places back into "mask madness" as the responsible are now being punished for the acts of the irresponsible. The science and the numbers are in -- we have a valuable and efficacious tool to (1) put a meaningful dent in the spread and (2) to reduce the severity of symptoms in those who are vaccinated. The science works. It may seem like magic to some folks, and that's OK because it doesn't change the fact that it works. It's also interesting to hear from other parts of the world how things are going there as they try to deal with the mess. So, I don't think that killing the thread is really the best, but I also don't have the patience to go back and expunge all the nonsense and drivel.

Finally, holding FUD up to the bright light of day is useful because it sensitises folks to the problem and might hopefully make it easier for them to spot it when they run into it in the future -- and the FUD (over this or anything else) isn't going to go away any time soon.
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