Corona Virus

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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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Sinned wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:15 pmI didn't pick up on that little nugget of sh*t.
I believe you're noting this small pile:
One of the indiocators as to whether or not a virus may be lab derived, is whether it's transmisible from an animal to humans and vice versa.
That gave me pause for a little bit because it flies in the face of science on several levels and put my mind to thinking (always dangerous, I know) about what sort of individual would actually believe that sort of tosh.

After about ten seconds I converged on it: Someone who is utterly convinced that humans were intelligently-designed and whose natural enemies were also intelligently-designed at the same time, with both living in an immutable world unchangeable save for the Hand of Man. In short -- a Creationist in the mould of ex-US vice president Mike Pence who adheres to the Usher Chronology. In that world, SARS-CoV-2 (and all the other viruses that have arisen over time) could not have originated naturally because nature is inviolate and unchanging save for human action.

As my late ex- once famously remarked following her wondering what my uptake of skirts "meant", "Well, there's fifteen seconds I'll never get back."

Get. Over. It. Darwin was right. Although I did like Ray's take on the matter.
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Re: Corona Virus

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Moon, I'm glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I saw your little missive with its accompanying picture. Obviously members of "The Flat Wheel Society" affiliated to "The Flat Earth Society". Both get nowhere fast. :lol:

Ray, nice of you to try and take credit for Covid but in reality it was the Gremlins, remember the films?, they were cooking up their bat stew in Mongolia and it didn't taste right so they tipped the mess into the nearest river where it was carried down into China. Unfortunately a couple of chickens imbibed some of the slurry in the river, were beheaded and became part of a sweet 'n' sour. The rest is history, the Mongolians get off, the Chinese are blamed and humanity pays the price. So, Ray, you were innocent all along and no pigs were injured in this tale. Oh, and btw, the Duck Billed Platypus was put together by some aliens who were trying to tell us that even though Darwin was on the right track, it was proof that he didn't have all the answers.

Lastly, the dolphins will be leaving the Earth shortly so look out for the message, "So long, and thanks for all the fish!"
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Re: Corona Virus

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Sinned wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:38 pm Moon, I'm glad I wasn't drinking my coffee when I saw your little missive with its accompanying picture. Obviously members of "The Flat Wheel Society" affiliated to "The Flat Earth Society". Both get nowhere fast. :lol:



Lastly, the dolphins will be leaving the Earth shortly so look out for the message, "So long, and thanks for all the fish!"
I will be wearing my tin foil hat tonight in order to receive any incoming messages. :alien:
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Re: Corona Virus

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I know that there are many on this site, particularly on this "Sceptered Isle" that bewail the Daily Mail but I came across this excellent article from David Mellor. In it he has said many of the things that have been ticking through this brain of mine.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... ELLOR.html
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Re: Corona Virus

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Oh well, the Daily Mail really really wants me to read their adverts and won't let me in without my ad-blocker. Sod that for a game of sodjers!
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Re: Corona Virus

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I've been of the opinion for several months now that if a non-vaccinated person arrives at hospital with COVID-related symptoms that they be sent to the back of the queue -- and if they're in the ICU taking up space that a trauma victim needs then they get sent home. Full stop. We've had enough of this idiocy.
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Re: Corona Virus

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snippet from the article wrote:Here’s the gospel according to (fill in the blank)
:lol: I love that... gonna keep that line in my pocket and save it for later...
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Re: Corona Virus

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B&B,

If you want to avoid the Daily Mail's adverts (and probably those of other sites too), you could try to view their pages through the TOR browser - it works on my Mac, and probably would work on Linux and Windows machines too (though I think that you might not be able to view the associated images!)

https://www.torproject.org/download/
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Re: Corona Virus

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Reading the conservative British comments on the article I can't help but think....

Awe, look at them defend their little Healthcare program for everyone [including anti-vaxers]...

This one made me laugh out loud!...

Shall we also deny health care to those who do not work?

Ha! Sounds like this one has that good old American blood running in this veins! :mrgreen:

If people have paid tax then they have the right to NHS treatment.

Buhahahaha! Come over here where you pay taxes and get NOTHING! :lol:

Don't unjabbed people also pay for the NHS? Yes, they do. Therefore, they are just as entitled to treatment as anybody else.

Oh we have a word for people like you....

"Ssssssssssocialssst! Hissssssss!" :twisted:

Those Brits think they are right wing... pfft...

America: "hold my beer..."
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Re: Corona Virus

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Moon, socialism doesn't have quite the stigma over here that it does where you are. State ownership is not necessarily seen as a bad thing as long as the entity is run efficiently. The trouble is that they don't seem capable of doing it that way - they run it like they run the economy - like sh*t, leaking money like a sieve and bloated with senior management. There never seems to be a single point of accountability for its general operation. So blame gets diffused. Railways worked better under the single entity of British Rail on a practical level but it just lost too much money in the process. I don't use trains but I gather trying to get from A to B on them is a nightmare in getting a fare at a reasonable price.

As for the article I sort of agree a lot with what he says. I feel that if a person has so little care for his life not to get vaccinated then the minimum of care should be taken to prolong their life if they catch covid badly. As was said, vaccination works with the examples of diphtheria, polio, smallpox and others so why should covid be any different?

For those having difficulty I've copied the text of the article below:

"How much longer can we tolerate anti-vaxxers clogging up the NHS, asks former health minister DAVID MELLOR

By DAVID MELLOR FOR THE DAILY MAIL

PUBLISHED: 22:17, 23 October 2021 | UPDATED: 23:55, 23 October 2021

Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad. Ask any anti-vaxxer.

A group of them were filmed on Tuesday, howling expletives at Michael Gove, as he walked through Westminster. Why?

For the high crime and misdemeanour of supporting the vaccination of people against Covid-19.

This was undoubtedly a public order offence, yet the police did nothing about the altercation (typical).

It didn’t seem to matter that it happened just a few days after the killing of his colleague Sir David Amess.

Gove was left to take his chances without knowing whether they were merely going to shout at him or, so inflamed by the madness on the internet, that one or more of these people would physically assault him.

Take a look at the kind of rubbish promoted online.

Undaunted by such stories, anti-vaxxers continue to defy medical advice and common sense

Covid has been designed as a means of controlling the population, we are told.

It was caused by the World Health Organisation acting in consort with Big Pharma and Bill Gates. It’s a side effect of 5G mobile telephone upgrades.

Oh, and by the way, those blue disposable masks have been impregnated with asbestos.

The anti-vaxxer world is full of crazed voices.

Piers Corbyn, for example, seems determined to present himself as more of a loony tune than brother Jeremy.

Here’s the gospel according to Piers: ‘Bill Gates wants vaccinations to control you, and to control women’s fertility to reduce the world population.

‘That’s his game, and he’s going to get loads of money of it. You will pay with your money and your life. We say “No”.’

Meanwhile, he distributes leaflets comparing the UK’s covid vaccine rollout to Auschwitz.

His Indian equivalent, Swami Chakrapani, claims you don’t need a vaccine because applying cow dung to your body will do the trick.

Anti vaccination protesters march through Newcastle warning of the supposed dangers of COVID-19 vaccinations

Maybe coronavirus would be better.

Faced with such nonsense, you might reasonably think the best thing to do is laugh and pass by on the other side.

I don’t agree. This is stuff is pernicious. It is helping to sustain Covid-19, to prolong suffering and death.

It’s filling up hospital beds, thereby constraining the health service from treating patients desperately ill with other conditions like cancer – treatment put on hold during the pandemic with often devastating effects.

Let me concentrate the mind with a few statistics.

As many as four out of ten of those hospitalised with Covid-19 are not fully vaccinated.

Pensioners are three times more likely to be admitted to hospital with covid if they are anti-vaxxers.

Initial results suggest that booster jabs are 95 per cent effective. That’s why I’m having mine on Wednesday.

But as Professor Sir Andrew Pollard, the distinguished head of the Oxford vaccine group which created the AstraZeneca jab, points out, however important the boosters will prove, the immediate priority are the millions of supposedly adult citizens who have simply refused to take a life-saving injection.

Too many of whom now occupy beds in intensive care.

In some areas of the country, the take up of the important second vaccine is as low as 50 per cent.

It is thought that half of professional footballers haven’t even had a first jab.

The choice is stark: a vaccine passport system – or disruption, misery and irreparable damage to millions of lives and to the economy

Refusing the vaccine is not merely irrational, it’s taking a chance with your life. A gamble where lives are lost.

Leslie Lawrenson, a 58 year old Cambridge-educated lawyer, blogged: ‘I hope I’ve got it because I’d rather have the antibodies in my blood than take the jab…the potential dangers from taking these experimental jabs weren’t worth the risk. I’d rather take my chances with my immune system.’

Well he did, and he lost. A few days later, his 11 year old son found him dead.

Matthew Keenan was ‘a wholly confirmed vaccine sceptic’, when he fell desperately ill last July. He said if he could turn back time, he would. But he couldn’t.

And this fit football coach and proud dad died needlessly last July aged only 34. What a sad waste.

Throughout history tens of millions have died of diseases that wouldn’t kill them today because of vaccinations.

In a quiet graveyard in Dorset, two infants are buried. My aunt and uncle, who died of diphtheria in the 1920s, when it was the biggest killer of kids. Diphtheria was known as ‘the silent strangler’ because of the awful manner of their death.

Today, most youngsters have never even heard of diphtheria, let alone died from it, because vaccinations finished it off.

There’s a word for some people’s rejection of a life-saving jab, and that word is decadence.

I look back six decades to Geoff Hall, a hero of my childhood. This Birmingham City and England fullback was enjoying a hugely successful career. Then polio killed him.

Wouldn’t he have loved the opportunity to be vaccinated? One sadly didn’t emerge until a few years too late for him.

Thankfully, children today know nothing of polio, either.

As to the anti-vaxxers, we cannot merely switch them off, much as I would like to do so.

A few months ago I was on a tube train when it was invaded by a loud, who started ripping down covid posters, and, having dragged a ghetto blaster into the carriage, began playing anti-vax songs and dancing around.

What did London Underground do? Nothing.

So, again, the question that won’t go away: how much longer can we tolerate seeing the NHS bunged up with people who get covid really badly because they won’t be vaccinated?

Is this just a matter for individual choice? Or are the consequences for society too serious to overlook?

Ask the people not getting proper care for cancer.

Ask the people whose lives have been thrown into chaos by the wider effects of the continuing Covid meltdown.

The court system has ground to a halt. All manner of cases – some say 60,000 – are held up, a lot of them really serious like murders and rapes.

What will be the consequence for justice when finally they are heard, if ever they are, and memories have dimmed?

All those half-empty public offices. The banks that won’t talk to you because everyone’s at home. The schools turned upside down by perpetual closures.

Today we find ourselves looking at the return of restrictions, perhaps even the abyss of another lockdown.

I acknowledge, having been a minister for 11 years, that the options are not easy.

It’s tempting to suggest that anti-vaxxers should be denied treatment, or treated only at their own expense. It’s been seriously suggested in Australia.

But I doubt it would work there and certainly won’t work here.

But a vaccine passport might. Why shouldn’t we ban those who refuse the vaccine from places of entertainment or – as Italy has done – from going to work?

Forcing the anti-vaxxers to stay at home, it can be argued, is necessary for public protection.

If they wish to exercise their individual choice, then let them do so. But in a way that does not damage you or me or the wider public interest.

What the anti-vaxxers are doing is, in its way, as harmful to society as if they ran along a street stabbing passers-by at random.

Unpalatable as many will find it, I believe we have to act or there’s a terrible danger we’ll be saddled with unmanageable covid outbreaks for as far ahead as we can see.

All that disruption. All that misery. All the damage caused to business and the economy.

I’m not up for that."
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Re: Corona Virus

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Sinned wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:15 pmI feel that if a person has so little care for his life not to get vaccinated then the minimum of care should be taken to prolong their life if they catch covid badly.
Aside from the individual (induhvidual?) having little care for his own life, he is also being ridiculously irresponsible with the lives of those around him.

I'm a big advocate for making the Prime Directive be quite simply, "Never be part of the problem." Be part of the solution is you can be, but if you can't then stay out of the way -- especially if you might become part of the problem. Anti-vaxxers are a big part of the problem now, and should be so treated. If they cannot receive the vaccination because of allergy to the ingredients or some other legitimate medical condition then they can't -- and shouldn't; however, those who don't get it because of misinformation, disinformation, conspiracy-theory, ignorance, or "religions reasoning" then I have no patience whatsoever. It's useless to try to sway them, so I just let them be.

What we're seeing in this is a direct response to the dumbing-down of education and the erosion of social cohesion that's been going on since the 1980s, and I think it's passed the point of no return.
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Re: Corona Virus

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My wife and I are due covid boosters and flu vaccinations shortly. We are eligible or the covid one on 4th November and we will get onto the site shortly to book it. The flu one we can get from our local pharmacy anytime. We definitely want to be part of the solution and live a good few years more. Pointless getting to retirement and then nuffing it brfore you've had time to enjoy it.
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Re: Corona Virus

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Sinned wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:15 pm Moon, socialism doesn't have quite the stigma over here that it does where you are. State ownership is not necessarily seen as a bad thing as long as the entity is run efficiently. The trouble is that they don't seem capable of doing it that way - they run it like they run the economy - like sh*t, leaking money like a sieve and bloated with senior management. There never seems to be a single point of accountability for its general operation. So blame gets diffused
We have about 80% socialism for the ultra wealthy here, and 100% socialism for the ultra poor.

It's the ones in the middle (where I'm at)... we pay out the nose for everything, and live our lives in a 100% capitalist system. Currently the only "socialist" thing I can think of that I actually use is the highway and road system. I can't think of any other state owned service or thing that I actually use. I suppose the police protection system helps keep the peace. [0]

Okay, so I guess that's not "100% capitalist"... maybe more along the lines of 98%... depending on how much of the "road" we use. Considering the number of miles I log... my percentage may be lower.

[0] Anyone else notice it is somewhat ironic that the hard left, the "socialist" of American society want to "defund the police"? It's not like the police departments are privately owned. They USED to be, but now they're not. I found it really... queer (heh) that the pride events of NYC banned NYC police from entering and instead farmed police protection out to private security companies....

That ain't how socialism works! :lol: Gheeze people! :mrgreen:
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Re: Corona Virus

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by moonshadow » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:15 pm

Sinned wrote: ↑Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:15 am
Moon, socialism doesn't have quite the stigma over here that it does where you are.
We have about 80% socialism for the ultra wealthy here, and 100% socialism for the ultra poor.

It's the ones in the middle (where I'm at)... we pay out the nose for everything, and live our lives in a 100% capitalist system. Currently the only "socialist" thing I can think of that I actually use is the highway and road system. I can't think of any other state owned service or thing that I actually use. I suppose the police protection system helps keep the peace. [0]

Okay, so I guess that's not "100% capitalist"... maybe more along the lines of 98%... depending on how much of the "road" we use. Considering the number of miles I log... my percentage may be lower.
OK, I have put my BIG ear plugs in because I know the following will create some screams. I posted a similar list a few months back of the many "socialist" programs we have in the U.S. and as the article points out -- there isn't a one of you that does not take part/support and benefit from some if not many of them. So, let the hollering start anew -- but when can we start using that 'horrid' word with a bit more nuanced accuracy?

[Please don't waste our time quibbling about individual items on the list; or proclaim it came from a 'lefty' publication; or protest it is missing items or has too many....the undeniably obvious point is that we do have a many socialist programs in the U.S. that are widely supported by folks with every label you can apply: D's, R's, Independents, Christians, atheists, libs, Oath Keepers, Q-Anon, Vets, and and and....].



Socialism. Maybe I should have used RED ink on all of these....but you can apply whatever color you like, I'll smile either way!

There is nothing more feared and hated in America.

The word alone sends shivers down the spine of the American people.

Those three syllables conger up images of Big Brother Government ruling over us all, telling us what to eat, wear, buy, and think. Our children in national uniform being indoctrinated with propaganda in government education camps that use to be schools, turning them into little slaves. While their parents work twelve hour shifts in the concentration camp that slaughters rich successful billionaires, as the poor and needy get a million dollars a month in welfare. A murderous government waging a war against freedom and liberty to gain complete control over everyone and everything.

You know, the way things were under that socialist Bill Clinton. And the way things are now under that socialist Barack Obama.

They imagine the USSR and how Democrats are turning America into it because our government will give money to poor people so they don't starve to death. (Giving money to billion dollar corporations is NOT socialism somehow. You would be a communist and a hippie to think otherwise.)

This is scary stuff!

And it's about to get scarier, because I have some terrifying news for you....

Socialism is alive and well in America and it has been here for a very long time!

Oh, that's not all. it gets much worse! I hope your sitting down...

As it turns out, You love socialism and you use it everyday, and you may not even know it! It may have even saved your life. I know, this is bad...

Now relax and breath. It's going to be okay! We are going to get through this.

You see, we are still a capitalist nation. In America, you can still make a billion dollars, get a giant tax cut, and pay your employees barely enough to survive while you sail in your yacht to escape any guilt that might inconvenience you. So don't freak out just yet!

The thing is, socialism is all over America and people actually like it. Even you... Yes you!

I know, I know. You're a conservative that believes in freedom and the constitution. You hate handouts and believe in hard work and the individual. You think government should get out of the way and let you live your lives and allow you to prosper on your own. You know that all rich people must have worked hard and all poor people are lazy. There is no other reason why they could be poor considering life is completely fair and all people are born into situations and environments that allow them to have all the opportunities and blessings that you had. There is no fathomable way they could have 2 or 3 jobs they work very hard at but still can't make ends meet. You got it all figured out.

But still, even you get your kicks from a little socialism every now and then.

Don't think of this as an intervention, think of it as a coming out of the closet party. We know you are a closet socialist. It's okay, you are amongst friends and we support you. Besides, we always knew...

Socialism is taxpayer funds being used collectively to benefit society as a whole, despite income, contribution, or ability.

Sounds horrible, huh?

Well I hate to be the one to tell you, but Socialism, which you have been told to fear all your life, is responsible for all this...

1. The Military/Defense - The United States military is the largest and most funded socialist program in the world. It operates thanks to our taxpayer dollars and protects the country as a whole. From the richest citizens to the homeless who sleep under the bridge. We are all protected by our military whether we pay taxes or not. This is complete socialism.

2. Highways/Roads - Those roads and highways you drive on every single day are completely taxpayer funded. Your tax dollars are used to maintain, expand, and preserve our highways and roads for every one's use. President Eisenhower was inspired by Germany's autobahn and implemented the idea right here in America. That's right, a republican president created our taxpayer funded, national highway system. This was a different time, before the republican party came down with a vicious case of rabies that never went away.

3. Public Libraries - Yes. That place where you go to check out books from conservative authors telling you how horrible socialism is, is in fact socialism. Libraries are taxpayer funded. You pay a few bucks to get a library card and you can read books for free for the rest of your life.

4. Police - Ever had a situation where you had to call the police? Then you have used a taxpayer funded socialist program. Anyone can call the police whether they pay taxes or not. They are there to protect and serve the community, not individuals. This is complete socialism on a state level, but still socialism all the same. Would you rather have to swipe your credit card before the police will help you?

5. Fire Dept. - Hopefully you have never had a fire in your home. But if you have, you probably called your local taxpayer-funded fire department to put the fire out. Like police, this is state socialism. You tax dollars are used to rescue your entire community in case of a fire. It use to be set up where you would pay a fee every month to the fire dept. for their service. If you didn't pay, they let your house burn down. Sadly, a man from Tennessee had this exact situation happen to him in 2011 because he didn't pay his $75.00 fee. I guess that small town in Tennessee would rather let people's houses burn down that resort to evil socialism. So don't take for granted the fact that you have a 24/7 fire dept. to put out your burning home thanks to socialism.

6. Postal Service - Like having mail delivered directly to your front door and paying next to nothing to send mail anywhere you want? Well it's all made possible by socialism.

7. Student Loans and Grants - Did you go to College? If you did, you family might not have been rich enough to pay your way through. So you got your education anyway through student loans and grants from the federal government at taxpayer expense. Of course you have to pay back the loans, but if not the government, did you know anyone else who was going to lend you tens of thousands of dollars? Probably not. So the taxpayers lent you the money and you paid it back with slight interest. The government grants you accepted were gifts from the taxpayer and the federal government that you did not have to pay back. Socialism got you through school.

8. Bridges - Along with our highways, our government used your taxpayer dollars to build bridges. This allows the public to travel across rivers without having to sail or swim.

9. Garbage Collection - Like having your garbage collected once a week instead of having to drive it to the landfill yourself? Thank socialism.

10. Public Landfills - Taxpayer dollars are used to have places to dump all of our garbage that is collected by taxpayer funded garbage men.

11. War - That's right! War would not be possible without socialism. Your tax dollars are used to fight wars for your country. This is Big Government at it's biggest. Private companies don't attack other countries, at least not yet. Government is the only entity in America that can defend us from foreign enemies and our tax dollars are used for every second of it. Socialism has brought down Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, and Bin Laden. War may very well be the most socialist thing on this list.

12. Farm Subsidies - Our government uses taxpayer funds to pay farmers and businesses to provide their income and keep them growing food for the public.

13. CIA - The Central Intelligence Agency is vital to America's security. The CIA is completely taxpayer funded to protect the public from enemies.

14. FBI - The Federal bureau of investigations is a taxpayer funded government agency.

15. Congressional Health Care - As Republicans in congress warn us of the evils of government-run health care, most of them are covered by taxpayer-funded government-run health care. You literally pay for their health care while they tell you that paying for your neighbors health care through a public option or single-payer system is socialism. They are 100% correct, it is socialism. They're just not telling you that they like their socialist health care, they just don't think you should have it. They are afraid you might like it better than the private insurance you have now that funds their campaigns and gives them money to push what is best for them and not for you. Members of congress are free to opt out of their evil government health care, but most of them don't because deep down, they like socialism too.

16. Polio Vaccine - In the 1950's polio ravaged the United States. Until Dr. Jonas Salk invented a cure, finally ridding America of this terrible disease. Dr. Salk could have sold his vaccine in the free market and made millions and millions of dollars. Instead he gave it to the federal government to begin eradicating polio. He said that he made plenty of money as a scientist and felt it was too important to try and profit from or create a business around.

17. EPA - Republicans hate this taxpayer-funded government program because they have the nerve to tell corporations that they may have to follow environmental rules ad regulations for the greater good of the earth and the people who live on it. But if you don't like breathing mercury, drinking dirty water, and breathing in chemicals, you should like this example of socialism working for the people.

18. Social Security - You pay a tax to help ensure that our grandparents and senior citizens of America have money to live off of when they are retired or too elderly to work. I love hearing rich people ***** about this one because the truth is that they do not pay a social security tax, like most payroll taxes. This little piece of socialism helps prevent our senior citizens from sinking into poverty and starving to death.

19. Museums - Many museums are privately owned by organizations and groups, but many are also taxpayer-funded state, national, and federal museums.

20. Public Schools - Can't afford to send your children to an expensive private school? Thanks to socialism and government, you child can still get an education. Public education has been under attack for decades in this country by the radical right because public schools don't teach Christianity to your children and it enables people like Barack Obama to work hard, gain scholarships, and eventually become President of the United States.

21. Jail/Prison System - Many murders and criminals are behind bars right now and not out on the streets because of our taxpayer-funded, federal and state run jails and prisons. Taxpayer money is collected and used to help protect all of society from murders, molesters, rapist, etc. I know there's a lot of disagreement and controversy about how to handle our prison system, but I think we can all agree that serial killers should not be freed into society. There are also many private prisons in the United States. However, they have a higher escape rate than their socialist counterpart. Besides, don't you see the bad incentives in having a private prison system that profits from having people in prison? Since a business's top goal is to make more money than the year before, the only feasible agenda would be to get everyone in prison.

22. Corporate/Business Subsidies - This is the type of socialism that is acceptable in the Republican party. You tax dollars are given to big corporations to do things they should be doing anyway out of morals and ethics. Like not sending jobs overseas and hiring people. Wouldn't you like a nice big check just for not breaking the law? To be fair though, many businesses do earn their subsidies by advancing green technology and practice, donating to charity, helping communities, etc. They aren't all bad. People just get mad when big billionaire oil companies get billions of their taxpayer dollars while they're paying $4 at the pump. For the corporations that don't earn their subsidies other than donating to their very own political party, it's merely welfare. Though however you look at it, it is socialism.

23. Veteran's (VA) Health Care - Our soldiers bravely go to foreign countries and risk their lives at the request of their government and the American people. For those who survive, we as a country feel committed and obligated to ensure that they have everything they need for the rest of their lives for their service to us in which we could never fully repay. So we the taxpayers fund their health care in a government-run single-payer system for veterans. Many soldiers return with mental and/or physical health issues that would cost them thousands in a private health care plan. Socialism funds the military, the overall war, and also takes care of our troops when they return home.

24. Public Parks - Like going to the park on a sunny day? Just being able to walk right in, or at the worse pay a small fee? This is once again the work of socialism. If it were private, it wouldn't be a park, it would be someones back yard. That small or non-existent fee will turn into a $15 fee faster than you can say "No Trespassing".

25. All Elected Government Officials - From the Supreme Court, to the President of the United States and all the way down to the County Dog Catcher, taxpayers pay their salary and provide the funding for them to do their job. We pay for every aspect of their job. So in a sense, I guess you could say our whole country is run on socialism.

26. Food Stamps - Republicans fill with bitter contempt knowing that our government at the expense of the taxpayer is giving poor people money to buy food they couldn't otherwise afford. This, like welfare, is what the right thinks socialism is all about, along with mass murder. However, just like corporate welfare, welfare is socialism. I'll just end this one with a quick story. I have been down and out in periods of my life and sought assistance via food stamps. Even though I was what anyone would consider poor, I was not poor enough to get food stamps. Which means people who do get them, must really, really need them. As far as my personal experience, they weren't thrown around like candy the way the right would have you believe.

27. Sewer System - Do you like having a sewer system to remove waste and prevent pollution and disease from seeping into our environment? Thank the taxpayers of America and the socialist system it operates in.

28. Medicare - Medicare is one of the most liked socialist programs in America. Most of us don't mind paying taxes to provide our senior citizens with health care and hope the next generation will do the same for us. If you don't believe me, just look at almost any poll. Most seniors would not be able to afford private health care. So this form of socialism is a life saver for this nation's grandparents and senior citizens.

29. Court System - Whether it's the murder trial of the century or a case in a small claims court, the taxpayers of America fully fund our courts and legal process. You may pay for your own lawyer, but the courtroom, judge, and jury is paid for through socialist means.

30. Bird Flu Vaccine - You don't have bird flu right now and probably aren't worried about it because our federal government used taxpayer funds to pump vaccines all over America.

31. G.I. Bill - The G.I. bill allows veterans to pursue an education by using taxpayer dollars to help them pay for most of their schooling. It also helps them with loans, savings, and unemployment benefits.

32. Hoover Dam - Remember when our country use to build things? Our government built the Hoover Dam using taxpayer funds. It is now a vital source of power for the west coast.

33. State/City Zoos - American families have been going to the zoo for generations. A place where kids and adults can have fun seeing creatures and animals from all over the world and learn at the same time. Many zoos are ran by the state and/or city, using taxpayer funds to operate and even bring the animals to the zoo.

34. IRS - I know, the IRS is about as popular and well liked in America as a hemorrhoid, but think about it. The IRS is the reason that we have anything. The IRS collects taxpayer funds for the federal government. The government then dispenses these funds to our military, states, and social programs. If there is no one collecting taxes, no one will pay them. If no one pays taxes, our country shuts down. Without money to operate, nothing operates. This may sound like a good thing to some radical republicans, but for those of us with sense, we know this means anarchy in the USA. The IRS gets a bad rap because if you don't pay your taxes or owe them money, they can be ruthless. Like everything else, the IRS is not perfect, but without them we literally have no country or no means to run it.

35. Free Lunch Program - Some children are living in poverty by no fault of their own. I'm not saying it is even their parents fault, but you surely cannot blame a child for the situation they are born into. In most if not all states, there are programs where children who live in poor households can receive school lunch for free. The taxpayers of the state pay for this. Sounds like socialism to me, and also the moral and Christian thing to do.

36. The Pentagon - Our defense system in America is a socialist system from top to bottom. We as taxpayers fund the pentagon completely.

37. Medicaid - Our government uses taxpayer funds to provide health care for low-income people. Republicans, the compassionate Christians that they are, absolutely hate this program. What they fail to understand is that when people can't afford to pay their outrageous medical bills, they don't. This bill does not disappear. The loss that the insurance company, doctor's office, or hospital takes gets passed down to everyone else. So covering people and giving them a low-income option reduces costs for them and everyone else. This is the main argument behind a health care mandate. It's not to force you to buy health care out of cruelty. If everyone is covered, costs drop for everyone. If you have no compassion for the uninsured, you can at least understand the rational in a selfish sense.

38. FDA - The Food and Drug Administration is far from perfect. It is infested with corporate corruption and they have been wrong many, many times. Countless times they have approved things that they later have to apologize for and have banned things that would have helped people. However, they have also stopped many harmful foods and products from being sold to the public and protect us everyday from poisons being disguised as products. While not perfect, they are needed to prevent harmful food and drugs from being sold to you and you family. Without them, corporations can send whatever they want to your supermarkets and drug stores without any testing or evaluation. I don't mind my taxes going towards a middle man to inspect the safety of the products we are being sold everyday.

39. Health Care for 9/11 Rescue Workers - After beating back GOP obstruction, Democrats finally passed a bill last year to allow government to help 9/11 rescue worker's with their health care after many came down with horrible lung diseases from the toxins they breathed in rescuing people from smoldering buildings. These brave citizens risked their lives and health to help complete strangers. They deserve more, but covering their health care is a good start.

40. Swine Flu Vaccine - Do you have swine flu right now? Then thank government and the socialist structure.

41. Disability Insurance (SSDI) - For those who are disabled and cannot work, our government provides an income for them via taxpayer dollars as opposed to the other option of letting them starve to death.

42. Town/State Run Beaches - Like going to the beach? Like it when the beach is clean and safe? Like having lifeguards on staff in case of an emergency? Then once again, thank the taxpayers and the socialist structure that makes it all possible.

43. Corporate Bailouts/Welfare - The whole point of this post is to prove that we ALL use, benefit from, and like socialism. This example is a form of socialism that the republicans not only like, but fight tooth and nail for. They don't like it when socialism is used for working/poor people, but when it's for millionaires and their corporate donors, socialism becomes as American as apple pie. The middle/working class who are the majority of taxpayers pay for welfare for corporations and people who have more money than all of us combined. When our government bails out a bank or gives a subsidy to a billion dollar corporation, you are paying for it.

44. State Construction - Ever see those construction workers in your town fixing potholes, erecting buildings, repaving highways and roads, and fixing things all over town? They themselves and the work they do is taxpayer-funded state socialism.

45. Unemployment Insurance - All your working life, you pay payroll taxes. Some of these taxes go toward a program that temporarily provides for people who lost their jobs until they can find another one. You pay for others, others pay for you. Especially these days, you never know when you might lose your job. You may need temporary assistance until you get back on your feet. The government recognizes this. UI also keeps the economy moving in times of recession because people still have some money in their pockets to buy goods and promote demand.

46. City/Metro Buses - If you lack transportation, you can catch a city bus. Taxpayer funds and the fee you pay to take the bus make it possible for millions of people to go to work.
47. WIC - WIC is a federally funded program to assist women, infants, and children. WIC helps low-income families by providing funding for nutrition, education, and health care for children.

48. State Snow Removal - Even though sometimes it may take them longer than you like to get to your street, do you like having snow plow service to clear our roads and highways in the winter? This is a state socialist taxpayer-funded service.

49. PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) - PBS operates on donations and government funding. The provide non-partisan news and information to the public. They are the home of Sesame Street, Masterpiece Theater, and The Antiques Roadshow. Surveys show that they are literally the most trusted name in news. I wonder how Fox feels about that?

50. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) - The CDC helps promote and enact the health and safety of the public along with helping to prevent and control illness and disease. The CDC is a government program that operates on taxpayer funding.

51. Welfare - Is there anything the republicans hate more? Of course I'm talking about the welfare that goes to poor people. Corporate welfare is not only accepted in the republican Kabul, but it's mandatory that we give our tax dollars to billionaires and not question the logic of it. Though if you look at it realistically and not through the red scare glasses in which the right sees the world, welfare helps the economy. As I've said many times, when poor people have money in their pocket, they buy things made and sold by companies. This creates a demand. To keep up with demand, businesses must hire to keep up. If you yanked everyone who is on welfare off of it tomorrow, the economy would take a blow and lose jobs due to the down tick in consumer demand because we just took what little money they had away.

52. Public Street Lighting - Like being able to see at night when you walk or drive? Thank Socialism.

53. FEMA - If Disaster strikes, FEMA is there to help pick up the pieces. As a part of homeland security and an agency of the federal government, they use taxpayer dollars to help cities, states, and towns recover and rebuild. I don't know to many private companies that could assist in disaster relief and ask nothing in return. Thank God for socialism.

54. Public Defenders - Ever been in trouble and couldn't afford a lawyer? Well the taxpayers and the government make sure you still get representation.

55. S-CHIP (State Children's Health Insurance Program) - S-CHIP is a program that matches funds to states for health insurance for children in families that cannot afford insurance but make too much to qualify for Medicaid. Your tax dollars go towards covering uninsured children, is that so wrong?

56. Amtrak - Amtrak transports tens of millions of passengers a year in 46 states and three Canadian Providences. It is owned by the federal government and your tax dollars are used to fund it. All aboard!!

57. NPR - National Public Radio operates on private and federal funding along with public donations. NPR has been one of the most trusted news sources in America for over 40 years.

58. The Department of Homeland Security - Created after the terrorist attacks on 9/11, this heavily federally funded department of the U.S. government helps protect us from future terrorist attacks. This is the third largest department within the United States government.

59. OSHA - Do you have a safe and healthy workplace that provides training, outreach, education, and assistance? Thank OSHA! Brought to you by the taxpayers of America and socialism.

60. State and National Monuments - The Lincoln Memorial. Mount Rushmore. The D.C. National Mall. All brought to you and maintained with your tax dollars. Socialism is patriotic?

61. The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) - The USDA enforces regulations on the farming, agriculture, and food industries to ensure food safety, natural resources, and hunger worldwide and in the United States. Your tax dollars are used to help keep what you are eating safe and even feed those who are not eating.

62. Government Scholarships - if you work hard in school and show true potential, our government will give you a scholarship towards college so you can advance your education. Your tax dollars have been used to send future doctors, lawyers, scientists, and even presidents of the United States to college.

63. Department of Health and Human Service - The overall goal of HHS is to promote, implement, and ensure the health of the American people. Your tax dollars are used to do this. Government looking out for the well being of it's people, imagine that!
64. Census Bureau - Every ten years, our government collects data about our people and economy, to better serve and represent us. From the forms that are sent to your home for you to fill out and send back in and to the census worker who shows up and kindly asks you to fill out the form if you don't send it in, all taxpayer funded socialism. The information collected is used to better understand the economic situation and population in your area. Not to enslave you in a FEMA camp.

65. Department of Energy - This taxpayer funded cabinet of the federal government oversees nuclear weapons, nuclear reactors, energy conservation, radioactive waste disposal, and energy production. To those of you who care about our environment and would rather not witness a nuclear holocaust might consider this money well spent.

66. Customs and Border Protection - the CBP is the largest law enforcement agency in America. This is big government that republicans actually do like because they don't like Mexicans immigrating to our country like our ancestors did. However, this taxpayer funded, socialist agency of the federal government regulates trade, imports, and immigration.

67. Department of Education - This cabinet of the federal government is actually the smallest. They administer and oversee federal assistance to education. They also collect data and enforce federal laws and regulations involving education. Even though the right thinks that this department is indoctrinating your children, they actually have no control over curriculum or standards.

68. Secret Service - Your tax dollars are used to provide highly-trained, skilled professional bodyguards to protect the President of the United States.

69. Peace Corps - The Peace Corps is a volunteer program run by the government that helps people outside of the US to understand our culture as well as helping us learn about other cultures. However they are more well known for their work with economic and social development in less-fortunate countries. Sounds very Christian for being a socialist program, huh?

70. Department of Justice - The DOJ is responsible for enforcing the law. Socialism keeps our civilization intact.

71. National Weather Service - Like knowing when a storm, tornado, earthquake, or snow is coming? Socialism makes this possible and available to everyone.

72. The White House - Our taxpayer dollars through a socialist means pays for the house that the president and his family live in during a presidents time in office.

73. Government - Like it or not, our country would not be a country without a government. Every single day, government on state and local levels serve us in ways we simply take for granted. Government as an entity operates and functions on our tax dollars through a socialist structured funding system. From the military down to the county dog catcher, socialism turns the wheels that make our society function.

74. Law - Laws and rules make our democracy possible. Remove these laws and you have sheer anarchy. Laws do not appear out of thin air. To have law, you need a government. You need elected lawmakers to make the laws and a government to implement and enforce them. Socialism is responsible for every law in this country. Without our government and lawmakers which exist thanks to socialism, there would be no laws. So the laws themselves, are enforced and implemented thanks to socialism.

75. Civilization - As an American citizen, you enjoy freedoms that many in other countries do not. Like anything else in this world, our government is not perfect, but you should be thankful everyday that your country has a government that feels an obligation to serve the people and protect their rights and freedoms. This is completely possible because of government, taxes, and socialism. Do you think the private sector would do a better job of governing our country? Do you think corporations would enact laws to help protect and serve you and your family or them and their profits? The reason you can read this blog and the reason I can write it whether you agree with it or not is because of the freedoms we have here in America enforced and protected through socialist means. Our entire civilization depends on us being a people united. Socialism is a glue that binds us together and makes possible the things that we could not accomplish as individuals working against each other.




I don't care who you are.

Rich or poor. Teaparty Republican or Liberal Socialist.

You benefit from at least one or more of these 75 American Government-Run, Taxpayer funded Socialist programs, agencies, and laws.

My overall argument is not for a completely socialist nation. This would not work. A completely capitalist nation would not work either.

I'm just simply saying that I, as a Democratic Socialist, feel that the two can co-exist. I know this because they always have. Socialism and capitalism have always co-existed in America.

I also believe in freedom. I believe options are a form of freedom.

Right now in the United States of America, I can send mail through the public postal service or I can choose a private option like FedEx. I can send my kids to public school or private school.

As liberals, we don't want a government takeover, we want options. We think we should have the freedom to be able to choose to have government health care if we don't like our private plan.

If we are 18-64, we have no options or freedom over our own health care. I don't understand why this isn't viewed as a corporate takeover of health care.

Socialism is not a bad thing. It is a foundation in this country of ours. Claiming socialism is bad because of radical and non-factual comparisons to Hitler and Stalin is like saying all guns are bad because of the Columbine killers and Jared Loughner.

National socialism and communism are very, very different from Democratic Socialism here in America. I'd explain further but this topic is for another post, this one is long enough. Besides, socialism defeated Hitler.

So let's just stop the madness and have a serious discussion about socialism and the role it plays in America.

"Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over us. The ultimate rulers of our democracy are not a president and senators and congressmen and government officials, but the voters of this country" - FDR[

Above extracted from KOS,

My comment:
Sadly, FDR may have misled us -- I'm not sure the voters are the ultimate rulers -- as Carl likes to point out, the Oligarch !% or less have it under control, and currently the Republican party is about to but the final wraps on making sure there is no wresting of that control but the uppity public.
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moonshadow
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

Eeehh.... some items on that list may be debated. I'm not sure how a few of them qualify as the communal ownership of the means of production.

Quite a few others drives home my original point... socialism for certain ones but not others. I pay for EVERYTHING on that list, but only enjoy very few... how is that fair to me?

Congress gets free Healthcare? Yep... and that's an abomination as far as I'm concerned. Oh, and let the president fund his own secret service. They've got the money.

A few of those items I'd label as more aristocratic than socialist. Aristocracy and socialism are polar opposites.

Surprisingly you left off organized labor, which is textbook "socialism".

Socialism is taxpayer funds being used collectively to benefit society as a whole, despite income, contribution, or ability.

Not really

Socialism:

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Not saying this is a bad thing, but it is what it is...

Later on when I have the time I'll break down (of my own opinion that list piece by piece..

Realizing that this is complete thread drift... but haven't we all tired of covid conspiracy theories anyway? :wink:
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
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