Corona Virus

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Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Sinned wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:14 pm gusto, nobody is completely immune. Even someone double vaccinated could get it and have and rarely died. So no, sorry to dispel your little bubble, but you're not. The vaccine means that if you do get covid the effects should be milder. If you've had it and the effects were mild then you were lucky.

Incidentally there is now a test to detect covid from a saliva sample.
It's a pitty that the UK cancelled the order with Valneva, which will produce a vaccin based on dead viral material.

As to being lucky, many in my surroundings have been touched by the virus, none had severe reactions. Even moh, who is a member of the high risk group, could cope with it with just 3 pills of azithromycin 500. That advise was given by a salesmaneger of one of the big pharma companies producing on of the vaccins. But as was argumented by Didier Raoult, former director of the Infectious diseases department with the University of Aix-Marseille, it should be issued directly after having the first signs of covid.
pelmut
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmut »

The good news is...

The population of the UK is about 68 million, of whom 48 million have had at least one anti-C19 vaccination; that leaves 20 million who are still unvaccinated.  Approximately 7.5 million have had C19 and survived.  Some of the survivors may already be included in the vaccinated group and a proportion of unvaccinated people could be immune due to previous symptomless infection or other causes.

If we assume the various minor discrepances roughly cancel each other, that leaves about 12.5 million who are still liable to get the full effect of C19.  The current new infection rate is running at around 30,000 per day, so if that rate continued for 400 days, the UK would be virtually clear of the disease.

Obviously that isn't realistic because there would be a tapering-off followed by a sharp drop as the infectable individuals became more and more separated from the infected ones (the 'R' rate would fall) and it doesn't allow for new variants or significant rates of re-infection, but it does show that the end of C19 as a pandemic is not all that far off in the UK.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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Gusto10 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:14 amIt's a pitty that the UK cancelled the order with Valneva, which will produce a vaccin based on dead viral material.
How do you know for a fact that the genetic payload has been inactivated? This is the old way that vaccines were created, and some even used the more dangerous "modified live virus" technique. Fortunately, I believe the latter is now completely deprecated for human use and hopefully will be soon for veterinary use. In the former case, one is using a more dangerous technique than the engineering-model in use with mRNA which specifically produces proteins targetted to certain structures on the virus surface and has no viral component at all.
... azithromycin 500...
... is an antibiotic and thus completely ineffective against the virus itself. What it might do is help stave off the pneumonia that flares up due to the symptoms of the viral infection. You might as well use hydrochloroquinone, ivermectin, or injectable bleach.
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Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

A hypothesis:

If the US wouldn't have funded the research in Wuhan, would we be trying to have a dialogue on Covid?
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

For those who are interested:
https://drasticresearch.org/2021/09/21/ ... documents/

Pointed out by the well respected microbiologist Rosanne Hertzberger with the University of Amsterdam and in the past Washington University (St Louis).
Last edited by Gusto10 on Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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More FUD and conspiracy theory. Just precisely what we need at the moment. Whither a bit of respect for the folks who can actually tease the signal from the noise that's being emitted.

Climate change is not real. We never landed on the moon. Donald Trump is still president of the United States. Where will this madness end?
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Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

crfriend wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:32 pm More FUD and conspiracy theory. Just precisely what we need at the moment. Whither a bit of respect for the folks who can actually tease the signal from the noise that's being emitted.

Climate change is not real. We never landed on the moon. Donald Trump is still president of the United States. Where will this madness end?
this might more in your line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwR7natWqLk
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

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Looking up Rosanne Hertzberger it appears, if it is the same person, that she is a writer and microbiologist with current research on the bacterial metabolism in the flora of the human body. Hardly someone who could be classed as an expert on viral infections and in particular covid. As Carl has said, misdirection with FUD. Give it uo gusto the things you are saying sound authoritative but when looked at in detail are nothing but.
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Ray
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Ray »

Gusto

When you

(a) respond to credible evidence with similar evidence

(b) respond to a statement or question with something which is not your own question

(c) stop providing links to discredited or biased individuals

(d) engage in a debate around peer-reviewed data

(e) stop evading or avoiding critical questions or commentary

(f) tell us exactly why you don’t believe in a vaccine (note the spelling)

..then you will see that the prejudice does not lie at the door of the many individuals who seek to engage with you.

If you do not adhere to the above examples of guidance - which the rest of us do adhere to - then you’re going to be ignored or ridiculed.

For my part, i welcome challenge. I want to hear of strong reasons as to why vaccines should not be used. I may learn something.

However, if that argument is not based on facts and science, then I will disregard you. If you refuse to engage in debate, I will again disregard you. Finally, if you keep posting links to discredited sources, I won’t even bother looking at your posts.
Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Sinned wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:26 pm Looking up Rosanne Hertzberger it appears, if it is the same person, that she is a writer and microbiologist with current research on the bacterial metabolism in the flora of the human body. Hardly someone who could be classed as an expert on viral infections and in particular covid. As Carl has said, misdirection with FUD. Give it uo gusto the things you are saying sound authoritative but when looked at in detail are nothing but.
Micro biology and virology are inter related fields. Recently I spoke with a micro Biologist now with Cornell, studying the consequences of the "vaccin" on pregnant women and the influence on their periods. Getting a PhD in one subject doesn't mean that you don't have any knowlegde on what is going on elsewhere.
rode_kater
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rode_kater »

Sinned wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:40 pm I've noticed in the media lately a change in tack over the covid virus from vaccine research to alleviation of symptoms. Producing drugs that ensure, after contracting covid, survival, the interval between contacting and relief shortened and the effects lessened. Thus being able to halve the time to release and so on.
Ever after all this time, the average time COVID patients spend in ICU here is ~15 days. So even if you get only 15 people per day going to ICU that's 225 beds you need. That's a really big multiplier. Each day in ICU adds about a month in recovery. Anything that can reduce that by even 10-20% would be incredibly valuable.
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Sinned
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Re: Corona Virus

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gusto, there may be a relationship between microbiology and virology but I have consulted several sources and can only find evidence that she has researched in fields such as food production chemistry and technology, i.e. fertilizer, seed technology, preservation techniques and meat substitutes. This list doesn't include any mention of viruses and in particular covid. So your mention of her is another example of complete misdirection.
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rode_kater
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rode_kater »

Gusto10 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:07 pm this might more in your line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwR7natWqLk
I want my 15 minutes back. It's literally someone demonstrating that the vaccine affects the immune system. Well duh, that's what it's supposed to do.

If he wanted to make a point he'd:

* use a sample size greater than one

* provide evidence that this is not exactly how it work with all vaccines.

* avoid logical fallacies like: This cell is created to handle damaged tissues. This cell is being created therefore tissue is being damaged. Nope, the immune system has lots of signals and something is making the immune system activate. Like, say, a vaccine?

One of the really good things about this pandemic is that we're learning more about the vertebrate immune system, which after the human brain is one of the most complicated biological systems on this planet. I've just learned that the tricky part of COVID is that it avoids triggering the innate immune system, and without that, the more powerful adaptive immune system never goes into action. Which is why people feel fine for ages and once it does eventually trigger it goes straight into overdrive and kills you. And why apparently people who got the flu shot had a lower chance of getting serious COVID; the system was already primed.

So much cool research is going on, it's awe inspiring.

Another thing I see a lot is people claiming that believing in settled science is just like believing some random internet video; it's just a belief. But the situation is not symmetrical at all. One side has a structure process of describing hypotheses, collecting data and then confirming or denying hypotheses. The other side is building castles in the air like the "science" of the ancient Greeks.

Damn it, now I'm down another 15 minutes writing this response.
Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

Ray wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:30 pm Gusto

When you

(a) respond to credible evidence with similar evidence

(b) respond to a statement or question with something which is not your own question

(c) stop providing links to discredited or biased individuals

(d) engage in a debate around peer-reviewed data

(e) stop evading or avoiding critical questions or commentary

(f) tell us exactly why you don’t believe in a vaccine (note the spelling)

..then you will see that the prejudice does not lie at the door of the many individuals who seek to engage with you.

If you do not adhere to the above examples of guidance - which the rest of us do adhere to - then you’re going to be ignored or ridiculed.

For my part, i welcome challenge. I want to hear of strong reasons as to why vaccines should not be used. I may learn something.

However, if that argument is not based on facts and science, then I will disregard you. If you refuse to engage in debate, I will again disregard you. Finally, if you keep posting links to discredited sources, I won’t even bother looking at your posts.
Ray,

The NHS indicated that the vaccine by itself is not the answer.

All I tried to do is to get people interested, put on theur thinkingcap and ask themselves if they are satisfied by what is told by governments, or do they want to make their own choice in respect of being vaccinated. I'll respect anybody who has chosen after having made an assesment of what is best for him/her. I do hope for the same respect. My gutfeeling was that things didn't and don't add up. That's why I started digging and tried to share what I found hoping that others would become curious also. Thus well construed pro's and con's. Such to no avail.
Gusto10
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Gusto10 »

rode_kater wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:46 am
Gusto10 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:07 pm this might more in your line:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwR7natWqLk
I want my 15 minutes back. It's literally someone demonstrating that the vaccine affects the immune system. Well duh, that's what it's supposed to do.

If he wanted to make a point he'd:

* use a sample size greater than one

* provide evidence that this is not exactly how it work with all vaccines.

* avoid logical fallacies like: This cell is created to handle damaged tissues. This cell is being created therefore tissue is being damaged. Nope, the immune system has lots of signals and something is making the immune system activate. Like, say, a vaccine?

One of the really good things about this pandemic is that we're learning more about the vertebrate immune system, which after the human brain is one of the most complicated biological systems on this planet. I've just learned that the tricky part of COVID is that it avoids triggering the innate immune system, and without that, the more powerful adaptive immune system never goes into action. Which is why people feel fine for ages and once it does eventually trigger it goes straight into overdrive and kills you. And why apparently people who got the flu shot had a lower chance of getting serious COVID; the system was already primed.

So much cool research is going on, it's awe inspiring.

Another thing I see a lot is people claiming that believing in settled science is just like believing some random internet video; it's just a belief. But the situation is not symmetrical at all. One side has a structure process of describing hypotheses, collecting data and then confirming or denying hypotheses. The other side is building castles in the air like the "science" of the ancient Greeks.

Damn it, now I'm down another 15 minutes writing this response.
This link was only intended as a bad example of someone making his point.
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