Corona Virus

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moonshadow
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

As for Trump rallies..

While they may sound like European rally of the 30's, don't all political rallies sound like this?

This is normal for political rallies. Democrats and third parties do this too.

To be fair, there are two factors don't square between Trump rallies and the Nazi party...

To my knowledge, Trump isn't advocating to invade other nations, and Trump isn't advocating gassing Jews, or any other people.

I'll grant, he's pandering to the far right religious base pretty hard, but let's be honest... only dumb rednecks are falling for that. Many Christians see right through it.

Don't get me wrong... there is no love lost between me and Donald Trump. I personally think he's an obnoxious asshole, but Nazi Germany, or Italy... America is not.

Tennessee is about to open their state here shortly, I am surprised by how many conservatives I've spoken to here in meatspace that seem opposed to that. Those who aren't flat out opposed seem to have a look about them that they just aren't sure governor Lee is doing the right thing.

Time will tell.
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crfriend
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Re: Corona Virus

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moonshadow wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:31 pmTo be fair, there are two factors don't square between Trump rallies and the Nazi party...

To my knowledge, Trump isn't advocating to invade other nations, and Trump isn't advocating gassing Jews, or any other people.
The genius is in the details. He's done plenty of sabre-rattling in his time on the throne, and he's playing with condemning a lot of people possibly to an early death in the name of "opening the country up" (which he can't actually do, mind, because it's up to the assorted Governors) -- and the humans that will suffer the most will be the ones that actually break their figurative backs to keep the house-of-cards more or less upright. I haven't heard of any Bloombergs or Forbeses or Buffets dying from this yet. One of my co-workers is likely going to lose his mother to it, and another decades-old friend recently lost his mother in law. The difference in condemning somebody to die in a gas-chamber is a lot like condemning somebody to die of infectious disease: only the methodology and ultimate cause of death are different.
Tennessee is about to open their state here shortly, I am surprised by how many conservatives I've spoken to here in meatspace that seem opposed to that. Those who aren't flat out opposed seem to have a look about them that they just aren't sure governor Lee is doing the right thing.
There is a massive difference between being "conservative" about something and being a modern Conservative (nominally, reactionary or Neo-Con). Old-school conservatives are a pretty smart and wily bunch with a lot of knowledge. Neo-cons just happen to hold a lot of power at the moment.
Time will tell.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by beachlion »

You have to see it with the circumstances of the moment. Then radio and movie theaters were king and TV was just getting a tiny foothold. Now we have multi media and TV all over the place. With those German rallies they had huge speaker systems that were amplifying the sounds of the cheering crowds. Now they ship in busloads of supporters. Then movies to make the undesirables black (Der ewige Jude). Now video clips to put the opposition in a bad light.

It is the same form of operations but translated to the new technical possibilities. Old wine in new barrels.

But we are way off from the original subject, the virus.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmut »

moonshadow wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:31 pm Tennessee is about to open their state here shortly, I am surprised by how many conservatives I've spoken to here in meatspace that seem opposed to that. Those who aren't flat out opposed seem to have a look about them that they just aren't sure governor Lee is doing the right thing.

Time will tell.
In Italy, when things started getting out of hand in the North, families fed South to avoid catching the virus.  Of course, some of them had already caught it, so they spread it to the South.  I can't help wondering whether something similar might happen if things start to get out of hand in Tennessee and people start fleeing the area.

If there's going to be lock-down, everybody locks down, if there going to be a freeing-up, everybody frees up together -- unless the differing communities can be totally isolated from each other.  Doing things haphazardly is the worst possible way.
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Re: Corona Virus

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pelmut wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:45 pm
moonshadow wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:31 pm Tennessee is about to open their state here shortly, I am surprised by how many conservatives I've spoken to here in meatspace that seem opposed to that. Those who aren't flat out opposed seem to have a look about them that they just aren't sure governor Lee is doing the right thing.

Time will tell.
In Italy, when things started getting out of hand in the North, families fed South to avoid catching the virus.  Of course, some of them had already caught it, so they spread it to the South.  I can't help wondering whether something similar might happen if things start to get out of hand in Tennessee and people start fleeing the area.

If there's going to be lock-down, everybody locks down, if there going to be a freeing-up, everybody frees up together -- unless the differing communities can be totally isolated from each other.  Doing things haphazardly is the worst possible way.
They were theorizing this was happening with people fleeing NY. I'm also anxious about this happening, but I like to think sometimes that people will be smart about it. Sigh. They won't. That's why we can't have nice things, like toilet paper (scored some this weekend :D).
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Re: Corona Virus

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Got this today from a front line nurse in the family (no conspiracies, no political spin, just raw observations)
Screenshot_20200422-110358_Message+_resize_93_compress52.jpg
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Re: Corona Virus

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Yow! But it pretty much sums it up.
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Re: Corona Virus

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My sister and her friend (a nurse) agree on everything - except the reopening. Her hospital is near capacity, but Detroit, Livonia, and I think Northville are still bursting at the seams. Her nurse friend is against. They are both conservative (since the news/politicians have politicized this, thought I’d mention).
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by partlyscot »

moonshadow wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:16 pm Got this today from a front line nurse in the family (no conspiracies, no political spin, just raw observations)

Screenshot_20200422-110358_Message+_resize_93_compress52.jpg
Thanks for sharing, nice to have a confirmation from a somewhat known source.
On the subject of those protests, quite a number were from people who weren't necessarily looking to be able to go back to their jobs, but were wanting to *do* things, like get their hair cut, buy seeds for gardening etc.

The problem that people are facing concerning money, should be fixed by welfare payments of some sort. Most other developed nations can do this, the current administration refuses, because they are captive to big money interests who do not want what other countries consider reasonable tax levels on business and high net worth individuals. This is also why they will not consider a sane healthcare policy.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Shilo »

Thanks for the screenshot MS but since when did these idiots ever listen to informed observation when they have good old fashioned prejudice and bigotry to fall back on. The info from the Big Apple sounds a lot worse than anything we’re experiencing in the UK
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Re: Corona Virus

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Coder wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:20 pmMy sister and her friend (a nurse) agree on everything - except the reopening. Her hospital is near capacity, but Detroit, Livonia, and I think Northville are still bursting at the seams. Her nurse friend is against. They are both conservative (since the news/politicians have politicized this, thought I’d mention).
I believe here we need to disambiguate the old and new meanings of certain terms that have become corrupted over the years. The comment of, "They are both conservative..." can mean different things to different readers and entirely confuse the situation.

What, here, is meant by the word "conservative" above? Does it indicate an individual who is somewhat reticent about changing the status-quo without compelling reason, or does it indicate a frothing right-wing reactionary? This is most important. I suspect the nurse -- who clearly "gets" the current situation -- is being rather conservative about the matter and doesn't want to ease up on the current quarantine orders until it is clearly wise to. The other, operating from a Conservative (note the capitalisation there) point of view regards the restrictions as an affront to her liberties and is champing at the bit to get them lifted.

I can understand both viewpoints. I entirely dislike being under house-arrest as it is causing me much angst and stress from the isolation. However, I also understand the severity of the problem so agree with the notion of, "Not so fast now." Having an understanding of the medical viewpoint tempers things, so I agree with the nurse about, "Not yet, let's get this somewhat under control". Likewise, when this situation broke, I disliked the lockdown, but understood it medically so agreed with it.

Everything in life is nuanced, and sometimes not easily explained. There are a lot of moving parts. Let's at least do our level best to not let the differences in language and word-meaning divide us.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Coder »

crfriend wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:45 pm
Coder wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:20 pmMy sister and her friend (a nurse) agree on everything - except the reopening. Her hospital is near capacity, but Detroit, Livonia, and I think Northville are still bursting at the seams. Her nurse friend is against. They are both conservative (since the news/politicians have politicized this, thought I’d mention).
I believe here we need to disambiguate the old and new meanings of certain terms that have become corrupted over the years. The comment of, "They are both conservative..." can mean different things to different readers and entirely confuse the situation.

What, here, is meant by the word "conservative" above? Does it indicate an individual who is somewhat reticent about changing the status-quo without compelling reason, or does it indicate a frothing right-wing reactionary? This is most important. I suspect the nurse -- who clearly "gets" the current situation -- is being rather conservative about the matter and doesn't want to ease up on the current quarantine orders until it is clearly wise to. The other, operating from a Conservative (note the capitalisation there) point of view regards the restrictions as an affront to her liberties and is champing at the bit to get them lifted.

I can understand both viewpoints. I entirely dislike being under house-arrest as it is causing me much angst and stress from the isolation. However, I also understand the severity of the problem so agree with the notion of, "Not so fast now." Having an understanding of the medical viewpoint tempers things, so I agree with the nurse about, "Not yet, let's get this somewhat under control". Likewise, when this situation broke, I disliked the lockdown, but understood it medically so agreed with it.

Everything in life is nuanced, and sometimes not easily explained. There are a lot of moving parts. Let's at least do our level best to not let the differences in language and word-meaning divide us.
I realize I wasn’t being clear - and in the current political clime the word doesn’t really tell you enough anymore. It would probably be fair to say they are both on the same side when it comes to politics - they lean right. The particular brand of conservatism they follow... dang I don’t even know anymore. It fees like there needs to be a checkbox list of sorts to see where people stand.

I only brought up their political views as it feels that’s how everyone and the news are treating this thing, and I find it funny how they’ve diverged now that it is a political issue, even though their underlying political views have not changed.

I will side with the nurses for the most part, but our state went a little overboard with some of the restrictions.

It doesn’t help that our governor got “caught” hiring a firm to do covid outreach - the same firm that was hired for her re-election campaign - and had to cancel the contract. I’m not sure it was a bad thing, but it didn’t look good.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmut »

I sense a subtle underlying difference between the US and the UK approach to this crisis, which I suspect dates back to WWII.  Before that time, in both countries, war was something that some familes sent their menfolk off to do in a foreigh country; WWII changed all that for the UK and war now involved all the family and everyone they knew.  The US gave us an immense amount of help, but for US families, war remained something they sent their sons and husbands away to do (and we haven't forgtten that many of them didn't go back alive).

The effect on the UK population was to create an attitude of "we're all in this together, so lets get on with whatever it takes to see it through".  Even though there are very few people still alive in the UK who went through WWII, there are plenty of us who had that attitude drummed into us by parents and grandparents from an early age.  More recently the US has had war brought to home soil by 9-11, but that was just one isolated incident in one place, not enough to involve everyone and change national attitudes.

Obviously this is a huge generalisation, but it might go some way towards explaining the different approaches to the crisis in the two countries.
Last edited by pelmut on Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by moonshadow »

Perhaps pelmut, I can't say with any degree of certainty what caused the U.S. to fracture the way it has. Of course I suppose it has always been this way to an extent.

It has been suggested by a few that democracy can not work for long because people will inevitably choose leaders that will destroy the system, and that humans require a firm leader, dictator, monarch, etc to survive.

Take the matter of your Queen, she can't be voted out and she seems like a kind soul with a sensible head. Perhaps she is one of the many reasons your nation gets along the way it does.

I don't know... just throwing stuff on the table.

Am I suggesting the U.S. discard its constitution and be taken over by a monarch or even a fascist? No... with the way things are we'd wind up like North Korea.

*shrugs* Oh well.... I guess it is what it is...
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Re: Corona Virus

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moonshadow wrote: Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:05 am Take the matter of your Queen, she can't be voted out and she seems like a kind soul with a sensible head. Perhaps she is one of the many reasons your nation gets along the way it does.
She is our insurance policy against a runaway government - if a prime minister started to alter things so that he could finish up as a dictator, the Queen would be the rallying point for opposing him.  (She also earns us more in tourism than she costs us.)
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