Health Concerns & Costs

[moonshadow]

This old boy is voting for Warren next week, and if Sanders wins the nomination I'll be voting for him come November.

There are a lot of ideas he has that I DONT SUPPORT

But my daughter turns 26 in 5 more years, full time work is non-existent here, and she's already not in the best or health.

A pox on anyone who looks the other way while people like her suffer. I'm sorry if that offends, but quite frankly she means more to me than anyones opinions here or elsewhere...

[pelmut]

According to an article by the Patients Association

There is an average 18 week wait in England for routine surgeries

For major operations the average wait time is 100 days so if you need a knee replacement come back in 3 months

Averages are a bit misleading in this case.  With some types of cancer you can be admitted to hospital in a few days, replacement hips can be delayed 3 to 9 months and gender clinics have waiting lists of 22 to 40 months to the first consultation.

[crfriend]

This old boy is voting for Warren next week, and if Sanders wins the nomination I'll be voting for him come November.

Massachusetts is a queer place. In the old and proper meaning, of course.

Due to the way that the election laws work in Massachusetts, Independent voters can vote in one or the other major parties' primaries, but not both. I am an Independent voter, and whilst I have not bothered with the Democratic primary yet, have voted in one Republican primary to vote against ex-Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney. He was a disaster for the Commonwealth, and would have been even worse on the national stage. (I voted for McCain in that one. One of the "Keating Five". I have a long memory.) I am toying with picking one of the primaries to vote in this year and am torn between voting for William Weld, who is running as a foil against Trump but doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell -- and who also was a failure as governor -- or to vote for any of the Democrats other than Biden (or Bloomberg, who is a Trump in a moderate's clothing).

In the general "election" it'll be (once again) a nasty choice -- back to the old state of "voting for the lesser of the evils" -- although I have publicly stated that if it's between BIden and Trump I'll vote for Trump. It's the suicide option: get it over with quickly instead of drawing it out for another decade. The outcome is the same ether way, so let's get it over with.

[crfriend]

That ain't right, it ain't ethical, and it ain't moral.

You're making the mistake in thinking that laissez-faire capitalism is ethical at its core. It's not. It's about exterminating the competition as ruthlessly as possible and basking in the glory and riches of monopoly power. Ethics is completely inoperative in the system. If it was operative, then the system wouldn't work.

Morals are something altogether different and tend to vary between religious systems, so I tend to focus on ethics which is more or less an agreed-upon framework. There's less "wiggle-room" there.

A very sad fact, though, is that if one leads an ethical lifestyle then he inevitably puts himself at a very distinct disadvantage in a non=ethical world. He will be well-regarded by those around him, but thwarted at every corner by the unscrupulous.

[moonshadow]

I am an Independent voter, and whilst I have not bothered with the Democratic primary yet, have voted in one Republican primary to vote against ex-Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney.

Believe it or not, I've never voted for a Democrat in a presidential election before. I've only participated in one Democratic primary to date.

In most presidential elections I've often voted third party. I did vote for Bush in 2000, because.... well.... how many of us really do smart things when you're 19....?

Through most of the 00's I leaned libertarian, however in the 2010's as the health care subject began to fester I started to reconsider. I never voted for Obama, and 2016 was a joke.

[Uncle Al]

Mod Hat - ON
OK - This thread has gone waaaaaaaaaaaay off topic and the political diatribe
is coming to a head. Yes, everyone has been civil, which is great BUT how
does political input have a bearing on the original post

REMEMBER - Politics, unless it is about men wearing skirts, are not allowed.

I really don't care if you vote for Daisy Duck or whomever else you choose.
I'm locking my own thread to stop the political meanderings(though civil) to continue.

MOD Hat - OFF

Uncle Al

[Uncle Al]

After much consideration and behind the scenes communication,
I've reconsidered the locking of this thread. Everyone has been civil
to each other in this thread. I hope it stays that way. Also, I hope that
none of you go through a situation like this. It is heart wrenching to
say the least. We'll be married 48 years this coming June. I don't want
to see it end this way.

I'll be quiet and not post anything about it any more.

As Mr. Spock would say: LLAP
(Live Long And Prosper)

Uncle Al

[SkirtsDad]

OK! She was able to pick up a drink cup today. Slightly moving her left arm & hand but
this is an improvement, too

We'll be married 48 years this coming June.

Congratulations on your long standing partnership. Many years ago, my grandfather of about 90 had a bad stroke. He was paralysed to the point where the nurses though he would never walk or talk again.... they couldn't believe it when two weeks later he was almost running round the ward. People can be very resilient. I hope she makes a good and speedy recovery.

My wife & I were watching TV showing the Berlin Wall being torn down. Our eldest son walked
into the house and ask why we were crying. We said that the Berlin Wall is finally coming down.
He said - hey, it's just a wall. We told him, yes - it's just a wall, BUT WE KNOW WHY IT WENT UP

Uncle Al

I think it is important to point out that East German was Communist NOT Socialist

[Jim]

After much consideration and behind the scenes communication,
I've reconsidered the locking of this thread. Everyone has been civil
to each other in this thread. I hope it stays that way.

Thank you. I've found the discussion interesting and respectful.

Also, I hope that none of you go through a situation like this. It is heart wrenching to say the least. We'll be married 48 years this coming June. I don't want
to see it end this way.

48 years is something to be thankful for however it ends. All marriages do end. Praying for you.

[denimini]

It is heart wrenching to
say the least. We'll be married 48 years this coming June. I don't want
to see it end this way.

Try and stay positive, as I said earlier many people recover very well from strokes.

I'll be quiet and not post anything about it any more.

Please keep us updated on your wife's progress.

[crfriend]

Al, even in the middle of all the sometimes "warm" discussion, do not think for a moment that you and your wife are not in our minds and hearts. What the two of you are going through is gut-wrenching; there's no way to sugar-coat that. 48 years... What a treasure!

[MrSoapsud]

My wife & I were watching TV showing the Berlin Wall being torn down. Our eldest son walked
into the house and ask why we were crying. We said that the Berlin Wall is finally coming down.
He said - hey, it's just a wall. We told him, yes - it's just a wall, BUT WE KNOW WHY IT WENT UP

Uncle Al

I think it is important to point out that East German was Communist NOT Socialist

... and that the East Germans built the wall to keep the East Germans in, not to keep would be immigrants out!

[Fred in Skirts]

I think it is important to point out that East German was Communist NOT Socialist

Communism is an extreme form of Socialism. Or some would say the other way around.
Either way it was designed to stop people from getting to freedom from the communist way of life.

Edited for spelling mistake.

[crfriend]

Communism is an extreme form of Socialism. Or some would say the other way around.

Actually no, on both counts.

Communism was an attempt at a direct path to a utopia where folks would all cooperate congenially instead of competing ruthlessly. Given human nature, it rather predictably failed. The psychopaths immediately rose to the top and wreaked havoc.

Socialism is a recognition that competition is a human characteristic, but tries to keep the psychopathic tendencies in check for the good of the overall society. This means penalising bad behaviour that is detrimental to the society -- like overt predatory behaviour, physical or economic.

Most of the developed world is moderately socialistic to varying degrees -- and is quite successful and maintains decent standards of living for most of their inhabitants. Is this really a bad thing?

The US and modern Russia operate under unrestricted capitalism, with the to-the-death competition that entails -- and the standards of living for a very large percentage of the population is either miserable or perilous, and getting worse. Russia is now in about 1915, with the USA in about 1928 -- and the clock is ticking. Can sane heads keep history from repeating?

The best bet is a graceful blend, like most of the EU has. Even the USA was that way several decades ago where we had reasonable regulations on corporate behaviour and a rational tax scheme. All of that is gone now, and the USA has a tax scheme that actively penalises folks who work for a living and rewards those who live on what amounts to gambling winnings. Is that any way to run a railroad?

We need to look beyond the knee-jerk reactions and discover what's behind the curtain. We have the capacity to be better than our conditioned reflex-response. Let's prove Pavlov wrong -- that we can learn not to drool when the bell rings.

[Faldaguy]

Uncle Al, my hats off to you in keeping it together through the challenges and heartbreak that goes with tragedies with our families and friends. In my observation a positive approach seems to be key to recovery. My wife's recovery from cancer, and her positive approach/attitude worked wonders for both of us. I hope you have the strength to keep at it throughout the struggle, and do know that every stroke recovery is a bit different, but can overcome huge deficits. Often even residual losses have a good side: My mother is more mild-mannered and accepting in a good way without loss of being herself.

And 'good on you' as the Aussies would say for bringing up the health insurance issues even if inadvertently -- as we have read in the feedback, it is a HUGE issues causing enormous hurt and harm as administered in the US and some other places too. It is a topic that needs more deliberative discussion, not less. I think it is the University of Minnesota that does an annual Health Outcomes comparison for systems internationally -- and the US, despite many of our perceptions, usually comes in about the 25-35th rank -- well down from many others. I've lived in several countries and can attest personally to benefits and shortfalls in all -- but indeed the US policy is driven by dollars not compassion and certainly not by what would provide the best outcomes for all of us. Uninsured folks and massive medical bankruptcies do none of us any good. As this is the "off-topic" side of Skirtcafe, it seems a good place for us to explore some of these topics where they do intersect with the rest of our lives. [And, one last 'political' comment -- try not to judge or assume the US media reporting of the explanations for politics or policies in other countries is accurate -- Venezuela is not the failure of socialism, but the intervention of US politics and Big Oil. The US talent for 'perception management' to generate support for resource theft and war is truly amazing!] Sadly, too often we let 'politics' divide us, rather than use it to find a consensus for a better answer -- this discussion you started is useful.

My best wishes for your strength and prayers for your wife...keep positive man

Flada guy