Anti-theft device

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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby Jim » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:24 am

bridkid wrote:Can someone please explain what 3 on the tree and 4 on the floor means?

3 forward speeds with the shift lever on the steering column and 4 forward speeds with the shift lever on the floor.
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby Sinned » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:34 am

3 on the tree is the steering column mounted gear shift with 3 forward gears, mainly automatic, I believe. Very popular for a long time on the US continent. 4 on the floor is the floor mounted gear lever, initially for a manual 4 forward speed box. Nowadays anything up to 6 speed is available depending on manufacturer and model. In the UK automatics still favoured a floor mounted gear lever.
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby denimini » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:16 pm

4 on the floor was common in the UK, 3 on the tree was more common in Australia with the Holden.
My first two cars, a Ford and a Dodge had 3 on the floor, which doesn't rhyme. Neither had syncro on any gears and I could easily change gears without the clutch. On one I could make a standing start without the clutch.
As for anti-theft, and the fact that it had no door locks, I used to leave the manual advance lever at fully advanced so if anyone tried to start it, it would do a nasty kickback and acrid smoke from the carby would waft up through the floor boards.
Later on, my old Land-Rover had a good anti-theft device; Lucas wiring.
I have never owned an automatic but I think I would if I lived in a city - if I bothered with a car at all.
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby melsav » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:03 pm

Pelmut. Sadly these days the car do`s the driving for you, gone are the days when you needed driving skills. Ask a new driver to double clutch or heel and toe and they would look at you funny and ask what you are talking about. Sometimes when I drive a newer car I do not feel like I am in control of the car, it is controlling me. :lol:
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby Fred in Skirts » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:23 pm

Wait until you get into one of those new driver-less thingies.
Now it is controlling you...

I do not trust them at driving or being on the same road as they are..

Guess I am just an old fuddy duddy!!! :lol:
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby crfriend » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:36 am

Fred in Skirts wrote:Wait until you get into one of those new driver-less thingies.

I'd rather deal with a computer-driven car than one "driven" by some pinhead fiddling with a cell' 'phone or porn-surfing the Internet.
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby FranTastic444 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:37 am

When I lived in the UK I had a 'kit car' that had such a tight pedal box that heel and toe was fairly easy to pull off. I used the technique on the road occasionally just for fun, but on track in the wet it was essential as dropping a cog without matching the revs could lock up the rear wheels.

I'd never driven an auto until I moved to the US. It is great fun to go back to the UK and hire a manual shift car. Driving on the opposite side of the roads and manual gear change is no problem for me, but I occasionally forget to dump the clutch at a junction if I've been driving on the motorway for some time :oops:
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby 6ft3Aussie » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:40 am

3 on the tree would be a 3 speed column change, while 4 on the floor would be a floor change 4 speed manual.
Pretty much all manual vehicles nowdays are floor change, although I have driven a 5 speed column change Mitsubishi van (few years ago)...
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby lazerr » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:09 pm

I have always driven a manual transmission when possible. I have a younger neighbor that converted his hot car to manual, but he has had a lot of trouble learning to shift (although I'm sure he will eventually get it). Learning to drive only on an automatic, does seem to make a person not really understand how it is all working under the hood. To me it's nothing, but to a person that hasn't driven a manual, it seems to be really difficult.

I will say, my Honda is a lot easier to drive (manual) than any other car I've had. It's a 2018 and it has "automatic braking" which, on a stop, keeps the brake on until you let the clutch out! Can it be any easier than that (no problems on hills!). So to start on a hill, clutch in, foot on brake, take foot off brake and apply some gas, as you lift the clutch pedal the brake slowly lets off as you apply the throttle.
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby beachlion » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:25 pm

In the Netherlands, if you do a driver's test in an automatic car, you get a mark in your license. Only after an additional test in a stick shift car, you will be allowed to drive a stick shift car. You need lessons from a certified instructor before you can apply for a test.
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby crfriend » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:28 pm

beachlion wrote:In the Netherlands, if you do a driver's test in an automatic car, you get a mark in your license. Only after an additional test in a stick shift car, you will be allowed to drive a stick shift car. You need lessons from a certified instructor before you can apply for a test.

Are there really hills in The Netherlands that are so ferocious that such levels of control are required? Where I live there are, but I'm also used to stick-shift cars having proper handles for "parking-brakes" and one learns to use those on hills pretty darned quickly. It's also possible for automatic-transmission cars to roll backwards on hills if the idle is set low enough (been there, done that).
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby moonshadow » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:16 pm

crfriend wrote:
beachlion wrote:In the Netherlands, if you do a driver's test in an automatic car, you get a mark in your license. Only after an additional test in a stick shift car, you will be allowed to drive a stick shift car. You need lessons from a certified instructor before you can apply for a test.

Are there really hills in The Netherlands that are so ferocious that such levels of control are required? Where I live there are, but I'm also used to stick-shift cars having proper handles for "parking-brakes" and one learns to use those on hills pretty darned quickly. It's also possible for automatic-transmission cars to roll backwards on hills if the idle is set low enough (been there, done that).


I've launched on some pretty steep hills and I've never rolled back more than a couple of feet or less to get going. If I lve got someone behind me I may rock it once to indicate what I'm driving so they leave me a little room. But if you stop at a light, notice the distance between cars.... most people generally leave at least 6 feet or more, especially on hills. To pull up mere inches on someone is kinda an ass-hole thing to do anyway....

I think it helped that the '76 jeep pickup I learned on had a faulty parking brake... :mrgreen:
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby stevelous » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:22 pm

A long time ago I was the owner of a 1967 Renault 4. The gear 'stick' was a handle through the dash board. Coupled to a 3 speed front wheel drive gearbox. The engine was behind the gearbox and the stick was a remote control for a conventional gearstick in the engine bay. Strange but it worked well.

Since then I have had a mixture of manual and automatic cars, ranging from Ladas, Volvo, Audi, Ford etc. My current car is a Subaru Outback H6 with an auto box but also drive my sons BMW mini 5 speed manual so for me it is normal to drive both on the same day.
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby beachlion » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:25 am

crfriend wrote:
beachlion wrote:In the Netherlands, if you do a driver's test in an automatic car, you get a mark in your license. Only after an additional test in a stick shift car, you will be allowed to drive a stick shift car. You need lessons from a certified instructor before you can apply for a test.

Are there really hills in The Netherlands that are so ferocious that such levels of control are required? Where I live there are, but I'm also used to stick-shift cars having proper handles for "parking-brakes" and one learns to use those on hills pretty darned quickly. It's also possible for automatic-transmission cars to roll backwards on hills if the idle is set low enough (been there, done that).


It has nothing to do with hills or mountains. With the hour long driver's test, you have to show you can handle the car. You have to show you can shift the gears when needed and use a lower gear to slow down. Also you have to be capable to use the clutch between gears in a way that is not too shocking. They test if you can start moving from a parked position with the handbrake on at a steep part at a bridge or something similar. You have to release the handbrake at the same moment the clutch kicks in. You don't learn that in an automatic car.

I said it before, a driver's test in the Netherlands can be a nightmare for some people. A few failed tests is no exceptional feat. There are even specialized driving schools for those cases to get them through the test. Driving is serious business in the Netherlands and in most of western Europe.
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Re: Anti-theft device

Postby crfriend » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:54 am

beachlion wrote:I said it before, a driver's test in the Netherlands can be a nightmare for some people. A few failed tests is no exceptional feat. There are even specialized driving schools for those cases to get them through the test. Driving is serious business in the Netherlands and in most of western Europe.

I wish they were like that here!

Much of my earlier comment was gently sarcastic, but I very much understand the need to be able to control one's machine.

I can "hill-hold" by slipping the clutch, although I detest the practise, and I can heel/toe the brake and the throttle although most US cars are not laid out in a way that makes that convenient or comfortable; hence the practise of making use of the parking brake. I've not driven a modern stick-equipped machine that's bright enough to do the hill-holding for me, nor do I anticipate likely ever having one. When I'm behind the wheel I like very much the sensation of "being one with the machine" and having a too-"intelligent" machine would seriously detract from that.
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