Well... the Jury is back....

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Re: Well... the Jury is back....

Postby crfriend » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:27 pm

oldsalt1 wrote:[... D]on't give me this common crap about taxing the rich most of the representatives and senators are rich and they AIN'T going to pass legislation that costs themselves money And by the way the average net worth of the Democrats in congress is higher than the Republicans.

This is why I regard the current system as an oligarchy and not as the republic it once was. The mere fact that the vast percentage of the population has precisely no say as to how the thing is run points this up. It's also why I hold out little hope in it reverting to a republic: it's not in the controlling class's interests to cede power to the (vast and overwhelming) majority.

Now I know that this is not a popular opinion -- but it's the only model that accurately describes the current way that the country operates. There is one other, but it's even less appealing than the oligarchy model, and that's that both the major parties have completely and utterly lost control of their mental faculties. If the Blues had any sense they would have picked somebody else last time 'round, and if the Reds had any they, too, would have selected another. Personally, I prefer the oligarchy; at least that has some component of control to it where insanity is just that.
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Re: Well... the Jury is back....

Postby Gusto10 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:02 pm

Weren't the taxes to be levied by the UK the cause of the American revolution whereby the Americans were helped by the French?
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Re: Well... the Jury is back....

Postby dillon » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:59 pm

Gusto10 wrote:Weren't the taxes to be levied by the UK the cause of the American revolution whereby the Americans were helped by the French?


“Taxation Without Representation” was indeed one of the rallying slogans, but causes of the Revolution were considerably more complex, as was the division of loyalties among regions and demographic sets.
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Re: Well... the Jury is back....

Postby Sinned » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:07 pm

In terms of small businesses any with a turnover of less than £85000 doesn't have to register for VAT. Also VAT is sort of cumulative so raw materials processed into an intermediate product such as sheet steel would have VAT levied. If these were sold to another company and processed into say steel panels then VAT would be levied again but that company would claim back the VAT it had paid on the original sheet steel. If the panels were sold to say a car manufacturer then VAT would be levied again and claimed back by the car manufacturer. So there's a lot of offsetting going on and it's only the final customer that sees the VAT as a sales tax. That's why it's called Value Added Tax as it's only applicable to the Vale Added to any processed product. Comprendre? [2]

So flea markets or car boot sales [0] would not normally be VAT registered and so wouldn't charge VAT. Of course, the HMRC [1] monitors things and has periodic binges to try and identify tax dodgers.

[0] Even ebay sales are included to identify traders who sell masses on there. Hey, BB is watching everywhere now!
[1] Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs - the Taxers.
[2] No, then google it.
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Re: Well... the Jury is back....

Postby beachlion » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:47 pm

Dennis, I'm not sure but I think the mechanism of the VAT will be considered as a communistic deep-state bureaucratic system of the worst kind to the average American. :lol: :bom: :twisted:
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Re: Well... the Jury is back....

Postby Sinned » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:31 pm

But that is what nominally differentiates VAT from Sales Tax even though the end result is an additional payment to an Authority by the purchaser. A difference is how the tax is arrived at - a payment on the added value of a product irrespective of what stage the product is in or a straight percentage applied to the product on sale. Where VAT is applied it is generally included in the price paid by the purchaser so in a sense becomes "invisible" and only becomes "visible" to someone who can claim back the VAT. Most ordinary folk like me don't even consider VAT we just pay the price advertised in the store without a second thought.

I don't know where Communism comes into it since, as far as I am aware, non of the European countries in which VAT is levied are Communist. Bureaucratic yes, since there needs to be mechanisms in place to track the various impositions and refunds. As for deep-state, Europe attempts to harmonise VAT across the countries on each product so that there is no material advantage to purchasing from one country to another. In practice there are price differences and there is a movement of purchasers say to Northern France to take advantage of wine that is cheaper than in England and we have a friend in Belgium who does a semi-annual visit to us to stock up on things she either can't get in Belgium or are cheaper here. She goes home with her car full to the gunwales.

In the end, what's the real difference, to the purchaser, between Sales Tax and VAT? It's still just and extra revenue for the Authorities. Perhaps the recipients of the tax may be different. With VAT it's our Government, with Sales Tax is it the Local Authority - City, County, State or Town?
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